Aggressive passing during race practices?

[Honclfibr]

Curious to see what the thoughts are here...is it all racing to you and what's good in a race is good in a practice session, or is there more room during practice for civility and regard for the other rider's safety and comfort?

No specific incident here, just wondering how everyone feels about the subject...would you be upset getting "stuffed" during a practice session in a manner that you might shrug off during a race, or is it all the same?

[TheIglu]

I tend to take it easy just cause of cold tires.

Regardless, I don't think practice is intended to be nasty, more like a place to air it out but realize that nothing is to gain by ruining someone else's day.

[TTD]

I always tried to be more civil in practice...

but there were always a few idiots out there trying to "win"

[OreoGaborio]

I can see this going either way... on one hand, it's called "practice" not "racing" for a reason....

On the other hand, like the old saying goes, "Gotta practice like ya play"

The only way you'll be more comfortable making passes in new places on the track is if you practice making passes in new places on the track. I'd rather not try & make a pass in a race environment i haven't made in practice... but at the same time, you can't let that hold you back when you're racing.

Either way, no matter what, common sense always rules on the track.... don't be an asshole & unnecessarily put yourself & others at risk, practice or race

[s a x m a n]

i had the best practice on sunday morning when my buddy and I got up to race pace (for us) on lap 2 and diced all practice long. Got us ready for the day!

It was great!

[Paul_E_D]

It's all in where you draw the line. I personally think it's a waste of time to have a different attitude in practice than in a race. If you get comfy following instead of passing, that's what will happen when it counts. Make good close passes whenever you can.

Now comes that line part. in practice, If I see a clusterf*&$# of more than 5-6 bikes, I'm not going to increase everybody's risk by bashing my way through. I'll pit in and then chase them down again.

My ethic says when in doubt, take YOURSELF out. I have literally done that in practice. I committed to an inside pass in T9 that I wasn't quite going to make. The guy was slow in 8, but goosed the throttle into nine. not something I expected.

Rather than take the guy out, I grabbed the brakes, standing my bike up on its nose right at the first apex cone. I brushed the guys rear tire as he apexed on the curbing, and then completed my dive forward roll into the sea of rocks outside 9.

[legalspeed]

My ethic says when in doubt, take YOURSELF out. I have literally done that in practice.


Good show Paul!

I feel the same.

[TTD]

By no means am I saying, don't pass in practice.

I would pass everywhere in practice that I would in a race.

The difference is in the closeness of the pass.

You know those passes you make in a race where you say, "uh oh.... this is going to be a close one"... as you pull in your elbows and HOPE all goes well?

Those are the passes I would not make in practice.

[Awesome]

If a single person is slowing me up and closes the door like a dick everytime I try and get by then I will make an agressive pass. Otherwise i can wait it out or pit in if I come up on a big group and maybe practice a start.

BTW - nice that they put those cones out and made an anouncement at the riders meeting
for practicing a start. I was getting looks out there when I was doing it in July.

[WebCrush]

Originally posted by 35racer
By no means am I saying, don't pass in practice.

I would pass everywhere in practice that I would in a race.

The difference is in the closeness of the pass.

You know those passes you make in a race where you say, "uh oh.... this is going to be a close one"... as you pull in your elbows and HOPE all goes well?

Those are the passes I would not make in practice.

Also remember that the term 'close' is relative to ones experience. I'm sure what you'd consider 'plenty of space' a new rider would call 'rubbing paint'.

A lot of riders also consider passes that they weren't expecting to be 'aggressive'. There are bikes from a lot of different classes out in practice together with a wide range of laptimes.

Just because you haven't seen a pass in a certain corner, doesn't mean a bike with more power, better brakes, or more corner speed doesn't do it on a regular basis.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by hessogood


BTW - nice that they put those cones out and made an anouncement at the riders meeting
for practicing a start. I was getting looks out there when I was doing it in July.

Yeah, sure is nice. I'll be practicing my starts next race weekend a LOT. While I seem to be somewhat decent at them, I am not near what I know I can do with this little bike.

[Ken C]

My attitude is to get by slower rider ASAP, but with about an 80% risk rate compared to a few 90% risk rate passes I've made in races.

My goal in practice is to get darn near my race times, right out of the box. It works pretty well, too. I'll be near the top of the practice sheet after first practice when others are still waking up. To do that means passing, passing, passing.

[legalspeed]

and confidence, confidence, confidence in your rubber on a dewy cool surface.

I'm still learning that aspect; "right out of the box."

[LM954RR]

Passing is part of racing...Practice is for sharpening the skills of what ever you're preparing for. Unless you're practicing your good manners...you should practice passing also, or you'll have good form and smoothe lines while getting passed by those who practiced racing while you were practicing being nice.

[tjspeed3]

I had a friend at the track last year who said "I practice racing" during practices. Later, while I was following another friend around, he almost took the two of us out by passing us inside 4 (He then gave a wave of apology and took off).

I look at practice as my chance to refine my entry into turn 1, be smoother through the chicane, figure out my entrance speed and brake markers for the bowl (Still!) and other stuff that maybe I should have down, but still don't. I also consider it time to work on suspension tuning and scrubbing in tires. Perhaps I'll practice a different shift pattern somewhere. All these things considered, I am going to have to admit that I maybe less predictable and mostly (even!) slower in some areas during practices than when I am racing.

Aggressive passing under those conditions doesn't seem like such a good idea, but we need to practice that, too. Getting passed aggressively is also part of racing and experiencing it during practice while riding at 80%-90% may save us later when we need to make adjustments fast at 100%. As long as the passer understands that the onus is on him/her even more than usual to make a clean pass due to people like me, then do it.

Tom J
# 703

[Stoneman]

Originally posted by hessogood
BTW - nice that they put those cones out and made an anouncement at the riders meeting
for practicing a start. I was getting looks out there when I was doing it in July.

Sounds like wunna Jerry's buddies was having difficulty launching his new ride...

[trackdog]

I personally think it's a waste of time to have a different attitude in practice than in a race.

I agree Paul.

Use "practice" for whatever you need practice on, I guess.

This racing after all and not a trackday. There are certain risks to be expected or presumed. Including meeting up with agreesive riders.

Why would someone complain?

[trackdog]

Originally posted by Ken C
My attitude is to get by slower rider ASAP, but with about an 80% risk rate compared to a few 90% risk rate passes I've made in races.

My goal in practice is to get darn near my race times, right out of the box. It works pretty well, too. I'll be near the top of the practice sheet after first practice when others are still waking up. To do that means passing, passing, passing.

[RSVMILLE661]

Waaay back in May 2003 I was out in my second Sunday morning practice. I had taken 2 laps to come up to speed. I crossed S/F and had my head down. Entering T-1 at a good clip and making my way through the chicane with no problems. I was coming into the chute for 3 and I could "Hear" a bike near me.

Knowing that it is the over-taking riders responsibility to pass safely, I held my line and powered through the apex of 3 and up the hill. As I stood the bike up through 4 I looked under my arm and didn't see anyone. I returned focus to the top of the hill figuring that the rider *near* me was directly in line behind me. I stayed tucked and was about to sit up to brake for 6 when it happened.

I was about 2' from the right side of the track setting up for my approach and the rider behind me tried to thread the needle between me and the outside of the track. He hit me as I was literally reaching for the brake lever. I highsided at 100 MPH +/- and proceeded to tumble down the remainder of the hill. My bike did a complete flip landed on its wheels and rolled down the hill and fell over. (I only did 200.00 worth of damage to the bike.)

For me the crash resulted in a nice visit to the infield infirmary followed by a trip to Concord Hospital via ambulance. Not only was I bruised from head to toe but my right hand was shattered and required 3 surgeries to be fixed. I managed 2 races for the rest of the season. Oct NHIS and Daytona.

So, if you can pass safely during practice I say go for it. If not, don't force the issue. You can't win practice.

[TTD]

Originally posted by RSVMILLE661

So, if you can pass safely during practice I say go for it. If not, don't force the issue. You can't win practice.

This is exactly my feelings.

In a race, every pass is NOT going to be SAFE. I understand this and that is racing.

In PRACTICE... I don't feel this is true.

Besides the fact that the pass means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.. the other rider may be working on something (a different line, a bike problem, scrubbing in tires... whatever!)

When the flag drops for a race, go for it.

In practice, you have to realize that getting around the track the fastest may NOT be everyone's goal for that session. And when everyone is NOT on the same page... the potential for trouble goes up.

I'm not saying I'm the fastest or greatest... but I completed 8 or 9 years of racing without one crash in practice... and was able to run at the front of my races.

This doesn't mean you suck if you crash in practice... but it does mean you don't have to take unnecessary risks to accomplish the true goal... which is to WIN RACES.

[OreoGaborio]

Not to mention, if you increase your risk of crashing in practice, you may not make it to your main event.

[RSVMILLE661]

Trust me, its no fun to sit on the sidelines for an entire season and watch all of your friends 1. getting better and 2. having that fun without you.

If it happened during a race I could understand to a degree but in practice, not so much.

[Awesome]

The rules are the same either way, passing in a race or practice is the responsability of the overtaking rider. I would not understand if another rider carelessly took me out whether in race or practice.