SV racer setup questions.

[maxim_X]

Going into racing I thought my bike was decently setup. Penske double out back, springs and emulators up front rear-sets and clip-ons and the lights torn off, plus an accassato MC and exhaust. At the last race weekend I was suggested to change to a 46 sprocket and it was something small that made a big difference on the track. It got me thinking that there could be some other little things that I could do to the bike that may make a big difference in it's performance. I know that setup can be secretive but maybe there are some things people could share to help a new racer out. The bike is an 07.

Here are some specifics that came to mind. Where on the swing arm is the best position for the rear wheel? Front, middle, back?

Is a lightweight battery worth it? Who is using which batteries?

Anyone running dunlops use other than 23/33 hot off warmers for pressure with good results?

Is there anything else easy to drop weight from the bike?

Are the cartridge inserts worth 1400? 3 is giving me a lot of bouncy issues. Is there are cheaper effective option to the cartridges?

What will a SS motor build really do for me? How much do they run? What's the rebuild time after building a motor (how long does a built SV SS motor last).

How do you tell how much gas is enough for a race without running out?





I know other people go faster on less. But, I'm just trying to optimize what I got now. If there are some simple things that I can do to help me go faster and have a better ride I'd love to hear it.

[Chippertheripper]

Stretch the throttle cable. That'll help.

[b0xmonkey]

^^^this. JC I was running a '99 with basically the same parts except stock front brakes. The lap times will come. Don't sweat the expensive go fast stuff, just keep getting track time and chasing faster riders.

[SVRACER01]

the gas one is easy.
empty the tank.
put in a gallon of gas
stick a dowel rod the the tank
mark a line where the wet part stops.
add a gallon
stick dowel rod in
draw another line
go do race
measure when done

i believe that a gallon will get you through a race. i used to run 1.5 just in case there was a red flag...or 2

suspension upgrades will always be worth the dough on a track like NHMS
lightweight batteries (IMHO) are for people whove run out of ways to shave weight. 7lbs is worth 1hp (generally speaking).
SS motor builds are worth it (again IMHO). manufacturers press out engine after engine by the thousands upon thousands that have fairly liberal specs. taking apart said motor and making sure everything is at its best possible spec and flowing fuel and air and turning that into HP in the most efficient way possible is always a good idea. building a SS motor is like balancing and blueprinting a chevy 350. is it still a chevy 350? yup. but it puts out more power than it did before because everything is perfect. not to mention race motors dont care about the EPA. how long will it last? quite a while i assume. its just a better version of stock. its not like a SB motor that youre trying to squeeze every bit of power out of.

[maxim_X]

I'm not trying to throw money at is for no reason. Something as simple as a sprocket change made a huge difference. I figured there would be some other stuff I could do. The susipension always come up because I can't run a lap without bottoming the forks. They are supposed to be setup but it's not keeping me off the bottom. Over twisting the throttle got me on the pavement this weekend. Not saying there aren't places I can't turn it quicker, but, I'm running out of them. It also sucks making a pass in 11 or 12 to get motored down the straight and loose that work.

[tsorfas]

Do you know for a fact you are bottoming out or is it just T3? I wouldn't set up a suspension based on one turn.

I am on a bone stock motor just an FYI.

I run 15-44 gearing.

Motor is the last thing I would spend money.

[Jim]

gearing and shifts will change as you progress faster.

i'd avoid the lightweight battery if possible. everyone i know that's owned one, has lost/missed at least one race because of them.
they dont like to be used in cold or really hot temps, and dont like lots of electronics attached to them.

the tires thing on Dunlops will matter if you're using UK, US NTECs, or GP-A Pro. people do change the PSI's slightly for each.

keep your eyes out for someone parting a built SV over the winter and get a set of forks with good internals. dont bother buying new at this time of the year.

only pricey items you might want to buy would be a slipper clutch, and a quick shifter.

[jasnmar]

You say springs and emulators up front. Was it sprung for you?

If you are bottoming the front suspension, there's a problem. Could be rate. Could be preload (I know preload isn't externally adjustable on the Gen 1, but I don't know about the Gen 2, regardless, because it isn't externally adjustable doesn't mean it isn't adjustable).

Springs of proper rate, if needed, are relatively inexpensive ($100ish) and that's where I'd start before looking at $1400 in cartridges.

[nhbubba]

Fork preload is adjustable on the gen-2 SV.

[OreoGaborio]

Come see me in Center Garage 1 next race weekend.

[Kurlon]

i'd avoid the lightweight battery if possible. everyone i know that's owned one, has lost/missed at least one race because of them.
they dont like to be used in cold or really hot temps, and dont like lots of electronics attached to them.

You know me, my 3 year old Ballistic hasn't skipped a beat yet. If you want piece of mind, put a Battery Tender lead on and plug the bike in when it's on the stands. For me it's part of the routine, warmers on, Tender on. Warmers off, Tender gets yanked just before the rear is dropped.

[cdovego]

Come see me in Center Garage 1 next race weekend.

Can I watch?

[Jim]

but you barely race Kurlon. Maybe it doesnt matter for the LW and ULW bikes, but i know MW/HW/UNL bikes have has issues with the light battery. Guy next to me in Roebling couldnt do morning practice because the battery wouldnt start his R1 in temps under like 65. Brett had issues this or last year with his. Just doesnt seem to be worth the risk of saving a few pounds to me. I'd get a lightened rear rotor before a battery.

[OreoGaborio]

i'd avoid the lightweight battery if possible. everyone i know that's owned one, has lost/missed at least one race because of them.
they dont like to be used in cold or really hot temps, and dont like lots of electronics attached to them.

I haven't had even a single HINT of an issue with my Shorai yet.
I use a regular battery tender in the winter & that's it.

My SV is harder to start than an I4.

Lightweight battery is ~10 lbs up high.
Lightweight rotor is maybe 1lb. Yes it may be rotating mass, but it's down low and very close to the axel.



That said.... NIETHER a lightweight battery or a lightweight rear rotor are going to make much of a difference for a rookie with a bike that doesn't have a good setup to begin with. Both are super low priority.

[Paul_E_D]

Shorai in my 675 has also been perfect.

[Jim]

interesting. i've just heard more failures than good feedback when it comes to lightweight batteries.

i know Tabor has one in his 2013 636 and liked it. thing looked lighter than my cell phone

[Kurlon]

but you barely race Kurlon. Maybe it doesnt matter for the LW and ULW bikes, but i know MW/HW/UNL bikes have has issues with the light battery. Guy next to me in Roebling couldnt do morning practice because the battery wouldnt start his R1 in temps under like 65. Brett had issues this or last year with his. Just doesnt seem to be worth the risk of saving a few pounds to me. I'd get a lightened rear rotor before a battery.

Sounds to me like all the people you're seeing with problems don't know how to size a battery or do basic upkeep. And nice to know I barely race with a GT and three sprints a weekend running total loss. After dealing with this unit for 3 years, I'll be putting one in my TTR and any other bikes I get down the road.

You can't treat them like a generic lump of lead and acid. They don't self discharge which is great for storage, unplug the positive lead and just let the thing sit through a Maine winter and you won't have lost any charge come spring. No charger required.

Don't over discharge them, or you'll kill'em. I have a 3 LED voltage monitor on my dash to warn me if I'm running low, so far it's never been an issue. If you have a working charging system this normally shouldn't be an issue.

Don't OVER charge them, or again, dead. Got a working regulator/rectifier? If so you should be fine.

They have less capacity than a lead acid, so I don't recommend DieHard battery tests when you can avoid it, and sitting there hammering the starter for 20 minutes trying to figure out why a bike won't start without tossing it on a charger after isn't smart either. They also need warmth to accept a full charge or to provide maximum capacity. This is likely why you hear people say they 'don't work in the cold'. The trick here is to warm the battery a bit before asking it to perform, normal practice is fire the headlight up for a few mins on a street bike but we don't have that luxury. Instead, bike on, if it'll turn the starter over give it a moments crank, leave the key on and wait a min THEN give it a go, you should be fine. Undersizing the battery will bite you here.

TLDR version - Note what I said about putting your bike on a tender when on the stands. I did this even with my lead-acid toting GS. The tender ensures you've got a warm batt with full capacity when you need it. Zero risk, and you'll have warning something is up if the tender never reports hitting full charge.

[maxim_X]

I don't know if my setup is bad. But, I feel like it could be better. Other bikes I have ridden at the track have been smooth compared with the copy SV. I don't know where is bottoms out but the tell tail on the forks is shoved all the way up after even a mild practice lap. The setup is sprung for me.

The lightweight battery idea wasn't meant to cause a debate. It just seemed like an easy thing to lighten the load. I don't really know what to get though. The motor build wouldn't be until this winter but it's a thought to squeeze a little more out of the girl. Thanks for the other suggestions so far. I don't see myself needing a quick shifter or slipper. I have no problems shifting or with tail wag.

[The Snowman]

I've had good and bad with my Shorai equipment. I've had one battery go and one charger go. But they were both human error. The battery, because I grounded the positive terminal on the bike's frame and the charger when I plugged the battery lead in backward (it was dark) and it shorted the charger.

Other than that, the batteries have been flawless. And the chargers are awesome. I have even dragged my charger several times, as I need to plug the bike in when I'm not using it. (total loss electrical system) I'm old and often forget things, and I've forgotten to unplug my charger on occasion, usually at trackdays.

Other weight saving items include a ligthened subframe. There are pieces of the stock subframe that you can actually cut off. (example, the left side passenger rearset mounting bracket) Before I went to an aluminum subframe, I shaved 3 pounds off of the steel OEM subframe.

You can also remove the radiator fan. I haven't had one in the 6 years that I've owned my G1 SV and it has never overheated, using water and wetter only. And it has run on pre-grid, in 100 degree weather, for delays.

As for suspension, the difference between emulators/damper rods and cartridges is night and day, IMO. I saw some really big drops in lap times with the better suspension setup. It makes you feel more confident, just like a new set of tires does. If you're going to put any money into the bike, your best bet is upgrading your forks.

[number9]

As for suspension, the difference between emulators/damper rods and cartridges is night and day, IMO. I saw some really big drops in lap times with the better suspension setup. It makes you feel more confident, just like a new set of tires does. If you're going to put any money into the bike, your best bet is upgrading your forks.

Do you have time to go into the technical details of the differences between emulators and cartridges?

[jasnmar]

Start with this. When you understand all of it posts back up .

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/E...%20They%20Work

[number9]

Start with this. When you understand all of it posts back up .

http://www.racetech.com/page/title/E...%20They%20Work

Thanks!

[nhbubba]

Cartridges offer separate rebound and compression dampening circuits. Usually even high and low-speed compression as well. This is important because your compression dampening probably needs to be different than your rebound, and vice versa. Often cartridge forks are externally adjustable as well where you can tweak each aspect of the damper without (drastically) effecting the others. This lets you fine tune the suspension for a given track, day, mood, wardrobe choice, etc.

Emulators are a nifty gadget that kinda, sorta, almost gives you something similar in a po' boy damper-rod fork. You intentionally destroy the compression dampening circuit of the fork and put these little gadgets in. These let you tailor high and low-speed compression and rebound dampening individually.

Emulators are not externally adjustable. One tweak, even adjusting spring preload, can change everything; high and low-speed compression, rebound, etc.

Race tech explains this in depth on their webpage here. It is explained in even greater depth in their book.

Cartridges >> emulators >>>> stock damper rods

The count of '>' signs I have used here is open to some debate. I have emulators. I love 'em.


Edit: Or what Jason said in 14 words.

[nhbubba]

Hey JC, what did you end up doing for a belly pan?

[maxim_X]

Hey JC, what did you end up doing for a belly pan?

It's painted and stickered now, but basically I bought some aluminum sheet and strapping, cut riveted and bolted it all together until it fit. Then I got the edges water right with Silicone.