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Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

  1. #51
    BMW track whore e30addict's Avatar
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?


    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Definitely. I get what you guys are saying, in theory. I am still struggling with how a guy with the best laptime cannot also have the best top speed. Just not intuitive to me.

    One guy (say Eric Wood) exits T12 at whatever speed he typically does (high) and goes down the straight.
    Second guy starts from a standstill at T12 and goes down the straight. Taking your example to an extreme, let's assume the second guy literally starts from a standstill.

    Will you data show that second guy will have a higher top speed Paul?!

    Top speed is also closely related to late breaking (how long you hold it wide open) ?
    Ok, how about a visual instead of technical example. When watching a race, how many times have you seen someone seemingly about to pull off a pass only to have the trailing (and slower) rider pass them back on corner entry?

    They both raced each other out of the last corner but the rider who went faster didn't come out ahead at the end. It's basically just like that.

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  2. #52
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    You guys got me thinking about this, so I went back through the data of some quicker sessions. I can't see any correlation between top speed and say blowing T1 or anything like that in any of the highest top speed runs. As I suspected, it is just rare to run your best sector times all the way around the track on the lap that happens to have the highest top speed. Just more proof that in roadracing, the rider matters a lot more than the bike.

    Here's a look at my best times from NCBIKE. I was close to highest top speed on my best lap (-2.5mph) but the data shows I was a little slower in sector 1 on my fastest lap. I just happened to really smash sector 4 on that lap and it made a .9 second difference.

    Top speed at Loudon for a 600?-ncbike-jpg

    Top speed at Loudon for a 600?-ncbike-map-jpg

    My fastest lap at Thompson had a high top speed, but so did many slower laps.

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  3. #53
    Lifetime Motorcyclist Woodcraft's Avatar
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by gixer363 View Post
    Expert riders will hit upper 140's on a 600 down the main straight.

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    If you can hit upper 140's on a 600 at Loudon, you're my hero. I average about 147-148 most laps on my ZX10 at Loudon. The straight is only about 1200 feet and we come out of a 35mph corner. Upper 140's is more like the front straight speed of a 600 at NJMP (where we go through a 125-130 mph last turn).

    The best GPS trap speed I've ever seen personally on a 600 is 174 in a huge draft (3-4 guys) on my ZX636 During the 2014 Daytona 200. Most laps are in the low to mid 160's at Daytona when I am by myself. By comparison's sake, my 1000cc Superstock bike would be in the mid 180's, low 190's with a draft.

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  4. #54
    Senior Member fromario's Avatar
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodcraft View Post
    If you can hit upper 140's on a 600 at Loudon, you're my hero. I average about 147-148 most laps on my ZX10 at Loudon. The straight is only about 1200 feet and we come out of a 35mph corner. Upper 140's is more like the front straight speed of a 600 at NJMP (where we go through a 125-130 mph last turn).

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  5. #55
    Lifetime Motorcyclist Woodcraft's Avatar
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Definitely. I get what you guys are saying, in theory. I am still struggling with how a guy with the best laptime cannot also have the best top speed. Just not intuitive to me.

    One guy (say Eric Wood) exits T12 at whatever speed he typically does (high) and goes down the straight.
    Second guy starts from a standstill at T12 and goes down the straight. Taking your example to an extreme, let's assume the second guy literally starts from a standstill.

    Will you data show that second guy will have a higher top speed Paul?!

    Top speed is also closely related to late breaking (how long you hold it wide open) ?
    Let's just look at a real world example. The lap record on a Ninja 300 is a high 1:21 at Loudon. Those bikes might hit 110 on the front straight (probably not). The Novice bump up time is a 1:23 on a big bike, so everyone with red plates is in theory at least 2 seconds off the record pace of this little 300. If you ride a 1000cc 4 cylinder you can basically stop in turn 12, point up the straight, pin the throttle and be over 120 by start finish. The key, especially at a place like Loudon, is that we spend the majority of our time around the track with the throttle either closed or partially open. There are 3 spots on the track where I've literally seen mid corner GPS data that shows a 35mph differential between a fast expert and a track day rider. There are only 2 real straights at NHMS (3 if you count going over the hill from 3 to 6), and they last less than 30 seconds in total. If you account for the fact that faster riders both carry more speed onto those straights and brake later at the end, the total time that a fast bike is going faster than a fast rider on a slow bike is probably 10-12 seconds out of a lap that lasts about 80 seconds. It's pretty easy to see how the top speed and lap time don't correlate, even when comparing two racers in the same class.

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  6. #56
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    Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodcraft View Post
    Let's just look at a real world example. The lap record on a Ninja 300 is a high 1:21 at Loudon.
    Challenge accepted!

    Those bikes might hit 110 on the front straight (probably not).
    Lol... at least on the ktm I was only able to hit 102 with per my qstarz.

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  7. #57
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by isaac_ View Post
    Challenge accepted!



    Lol... at least on the ktm I was only able to hit 102 with per my qstarz.
    hahahah.. Last time I used mine I was only 108 on my SV..


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  8. #58
    Junior Member LRRS#324's Avatar
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    My fastest lap on a 300 was 1.23, and I've never seen 110, I can't say if the spedometer is accurate but 103 - 107 is the top speed I saw. Second Eric's comment -

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  9. #59
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by LRRS#324 View Post
    My fastest lap on a 300 was 1.23, and I've never seen 110, I can't say if the spedometer is accurate but 103 - 107 is the top speed I saw. Second Eric's comment -
    107 is flying on a 300!

    On my RC 390, my highest top speed has been a 104. But, I think I was catching someone's draft. I average 100-102 anywhere from 1:21-1:25 lap times. I know the 104 was not my fastest lap time.

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  10. #60
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    How fast do you think Benanthony could go? Anyone checked his youtube?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    My favorite was you going through T2 with your eyes closed.

  11. #61
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by xxaarraa View Post
    Definitely. I get what you guys are saying, in theory. I am still struggling with how a guy with the best laptime cannot also have the best top speed. Just not intuitive to me.
    You can, but it's not necessary. Almost all bikes are still accelerating at the end of that straight, so that top speed is momentary.

    I'll check my laptop, I gave my gps tracker to Pete Kates for a few laps so I have his speeds around the course.

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  12. #62
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Faster lap times will show a higher average speed per lap. Doesn't necessarily equate to the fastest top speed on a given straight.

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  13. #63
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by LRRS#324 View Post
    My fastest lap on a 300 was 1.23, and I've never seen 110, I can't say if the spedometer is accurate but 103 - 107 is the top speed I saw. Second Eric's comment -
    Quote Originally Posted by isaac_ View Post
    107 is flying on a 300!

    On my RC 390, my highest top speed has been a 104. But, I think I was catching someone's draft. I average 100-102 anywhere from 1:21-1:25 lap times. I know the 104 was not my fastest lap time.
    Imma go out on a limb & venture a guess that one of you is talking indicated & one of you is talking GPS?

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  14. #64
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Imma go out on a limb & venture a guess that one of you is talking indicated & one of you is talking GPS?
    He did state he was basing his guess on the speedo. My numbers are GPS.

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  15. #65
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?



    So not too surprising.

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  16. #66
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    For the COTA talk, here's the back straight on a bone stock Honda CBR600RR. Stock street gearing was poop on that track!

    Speeds into and out of:
    116mph > 31 > 146 > 42mph or 4th gear > 2nd > 6th > 2nd

    Indicated via speedo (so yeah, speedo variance in full effect).

    Instagram <-- linky link

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  17. #67
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?



    hey Alex

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    Gino
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  18. #68
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Hey Eugene

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  19. #69
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    For a split second there, I was all "Who the fuck's Eugene?"

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  20. #70
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    WHO?

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    Gino
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  21. #71
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?

    Quote Originally Posted by nt650hawk View Post
    WHO?
    He'll promise you more than the race bike you're buyin'
    Then he'll carelessly pass you and laugh while you're cryin'
    But he brings out the best damn rider you can be
    Blame it all on his skills 'cause he'll always be Gino to me

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 07-13-17 at 04:18 PM.
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  22. #72
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    Re: Top speed at Loudon for a 600?


    trying really hard for a roommate.

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