Dunlop vs Michelin Question

[jtaylor719]

This is more of question for racers, I didn't want to put it out there in the 'maintenance' forum for the 'Busa dudes.....

So, I've been a Michelin guy since I started racing my Duc 750ss in 2004. Ran DOTs (Pilot Race, Pilot Power Race) until last year, then started running slicks. I'm running the softer ones, 1200/1800, and they work excellent - no complaints. BUT, all the fast guys are on Dunlops - and Jayroot told me I should at least give them a shot.

I bought a set of Dunlop DOTs from Todd Malvezzi - supposedly the ones made in England that Jeff, Eric, (SG?) and Shane all run. I get them installed before the Classic event by a local shop that fux up my rear wheel while doing it. All the guys in the garage say it's good to go, so I run it for the 2 day pro school.

I get up to (my) speed, and the bike chatters in T1 and T9. No big deal, screw on a little more gas and relax a little more...NOPE. The faster I go, the harder the chatter. The rear wheel steps out, no joke, about 4" or so at the apex of T1. I just shit, so it's a good time to pit in. I have Sto take them off and put on my slicks. He finds a F'n TUBE in the rear wheel - some clown thought he was working on a dirt bike! Anyway..I go back to Michelins for a few more race weekends, get the damaged Marvic fixed, and I'm OK.

I figure the problem was with the tube in the rear wheel, so I give it another shot. I swapped out the slicks for the Dunlop DOTs before a Fishtail trackday, and the next race weekend. It's OK during the trackday, but at the Thurs practice before the last race weekend - same thing happens. HUGE chatter with the bike actually stepping out both front and rear in T1 and T9. Shit my leathers again, off with the Dunlops, back to Michelin slicks. I get my best laps ever during the final ULSB race trying to chase down Chris in the final laps. No problems at all with the Michelins.

My question is, should I have had the bike set up to run the Dunlops? Should there have been an adjustment to my suspension for running a different brand tire? (both were the same dimensions - same width, but not sure about height). Was the tire a harder compound? Did it just amplify some poor mid-corner riding habits? This problem never happened with Michelin DOTs - although I never ran them at the lap times I'm currently running.

I read that Gman loved his Dunlops, and said they were the reason he did so well. I like the Michelins, but don't know if I'm missing out by not working with the Dunlops.

Any help is appreciated.

Joel Taylor
LRRS #719
3rd place overall - 2007 AM ULSB

[butcher bergs]

It sounds to me as if the answer is in your question.

[jtaylor719]

I'm sure it is, just don't know where...

[Pittenger5]

If it aint broke, dont fix it.
Obviously the michelins work for you, and the dunlops dont. Do you think a tire change will make THAT much of a difference to you, especially if its gonna throw your confidence all out of whack? If you use the michelins and they seem to be working for you, stick with them until youve outgrown the use of the tire, which I find it hard to believe will happen for many people any time soon.

[CAT3]

Could it be your going from Mich Slicks to Dunlaps DOT, and pushing the DOT to the slicks standards? if not, then I'd stick with the combo that works for you and your comfortable with.

[Wishbone]

Could it be your going from Mich Slicks to Dunlaps DOT, and pushing the DOT to the slicks standards? if not, then I'd stick with the combo that works for you and your comfortable with.

coming from the guy with a 300 rear tire

How about those Rockies?

[smf]

until you feel like you've reached the limit of the michelins and think the tires may be holding you back I'd stick with what you know works... (unless the dunlop slicks are a lot cheaper)

just the $0.02 of a slow barely-AM.

...and Marvic wheel?? f-ing ducs

[Kip]

Not all tires are the same. I ran a 14.3 on Pirelli unltil Sto at motorace worked up a deal for me to run the Michelins ane I ran a 14.4 on them. I had to lower the front end 10MM to get the tires to work. You can't just go from one tire to the next without changing things and hoping for the best.

[jtaylor719]

I figured it was a chassis change that was required.

I'll probably just stick with Michelins for the time being. Sto's a great guy, and is just a few bays over in the garage from me. Pretty convenient, plus the other guys in my garage run them.

I'll work on cornerspeed (and losing some weight) to keep Stupidhawk behind me next season.

[Karaya One]

The 1200 / 1800 slicks are not the best Michelin slicks. Try the 1245, 1246, 1247 fronts and 1845, 1846 and 1847 rears.

Also, the 1200/1800 are going away, to be replaced with most likely 2CT technology slicks. Those slicks are here already, but in very limited sizes - 420mm.

Michelin will have new slicks to replace the 1200/1800 and new DOT's next season.

[Paul_E_D]

Dunlops definitely tend to chatter. Many have success tuning it out, others are forced to live with it. I think it's silly to live with it just because Jeff and Co. say they are the best. Those guys get the tires nearly free! If you're paying full price, buy the tires that don't chatter!

[BMFR6]

Not all tires are the same. I ran a 14.3 on Pirelli unltil Sto at motorace worked up a deal for me to run the Michelins ane I ran a 14.4 on them. I had to lower the front end 10MM to get the tires to work. You can't just go from one tire to the next without changing things and hoping for the best.

like he says, you have to change more than just tires. talk to kates, he could get you pointed in the right direction of what changes to make and go from there. most likely you will have suspension and geometry changes to make based on the diameter of the tires.

+1 on Pauls comment, buy the tires that don't chatter.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

coming from the guy with a 300 rear tire

How about those Rockies?

you're a dickface

go with what you feel comfy on

[RyanNicholson]

those UK made dunlops are what i run....if you were running them around the classic weekend and got them off todd i'm gunna guess they are the taller size? I was running the 190/60's then. I started getting them off shane and al told me to raise my front 10mm, which i didn't do at first and the bike felt really weird, then I followed his advice which worked perfectly. thats when i started dropping my lap times like a mofo.

[Paul_E_D]

Those are sweet tires I hafta say. Mmmm...

[RyanNicholson]

Those are sweet tires I hafta say. Mmmm...

+1

though i have to admit i like the new ones better...the 190/55 Ntech things....its crazy how low the pressure settings are though, i run like 23lbs hot

[jtaylor719]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm gonna use my certs to buy another set of 1200/1800s for the beginning of '08.

I'll stick with what's working for me, my lap times dropped like crazy at the end of the year. Don't need to go changing stuff and screwing up my momentum.

[GMAN226]

When I changed to the Dunlops at the end of the season, I changed a bunch of stuff to make them work. Spring rates, compression, rebound and geometry. In the end I went almost a second faster. Was it the tires, who knows but I am sticking with them...

G-man

[Karaya One]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm gonna use my certs to buy another set of 1200/1800s for the beginning of '08.

I'll stick with what's working for me, my lap times dropped like crazy at the end of the year. Don't need to go changing stuff and screwing up my momentum.

They may be gone by then. I sold my last six sets of TD's today, and I only have eight sets of SC's left. There are no more in the USA.

[CAT3]

coming from the guy with a 300 rear tire

How about those Rockies?

Thanks, but I only ride a 190/55 rear. Rockies, the mountains are beautifully snow capped, waiting for snow board and knee to heal.. the team? they suck, not that I follow non-motorized sporting events. Just cuz I ride a fatass Busa doesn't mean I haven't spent time at a track. I used to assist my wingman in the pits with is R6 and another with a SV650. Thanks.

Karaya One, when do you expect to have the newer tires in, or do you already have them since the 12/18's are going away? And whats the word on the 2CT slicks? I run the 2CT Dots now, I personally like them, but other riders complain that there is no tell-tale when they are getting to hot and end up washing out mid-turn. I've experienced the greasy feeling in a turn after 5 or 6 laps, then pitted to avoid being laid out.

[BMFR6]

where would one obtain said Dunlop's? I'm thinking slicks for next season.

[RyanNicholson]

Steve, the dunlop guy at the track has them....i think they're $360/set racer price. Make sure you ask for the UK model, theres a big difference between them and the US version.

Edit: thats for DOTs, i'm not sure what the slicks cost....never ran them before

[Karaya One]

Karaya One, when do you expect to have the newer tires in, or do you already have them since the 12/18's are going away? And whats the word on the 2CT slicks? I run the 2CT Dots now, I personally like them, but other riders complain that there is no tell-tale when they are getting to hot and end up washing out mid-turn. I've experienced the greasy feeling in a turn after 5 or 6 laps, then pitted to avoid being laid out.

We should see the new rubber by mid-February. I have no technical info on them yet, though our Michelin race rep is coming up to visit us in November so we should know everything by then.

Did you run the DOT PR-C front? I have never heard a complaint about this tire. It is a triangle shape front like the old S2. The PR1 and PR2 are round shape fronts.

The new DOT's have been run here in the States already with success. They just haven't been released into mass production yet.

[Kip]

Did you run the DOT PR-C front? I have never heard a complaint about this tire. It is a triangle shape front like the old S2. The PR1 and PR2 are round shape fronts.

The new DOT's have been run here in the States already with success. They just haven't been released into mass production yet.[/QUOTE]


Are the PR1 & 2 fronts the same diameter as the PR-C front? Are they the same compound? I had a hard time getting my bike to go from left to right and I think it was because of the front "C" tire. Might have to try one of those rounder front tires?

[Karaya One]

The PR1, PR2 and PR-C are 600mm, but this doesn't tell the whole story. The new, stiffer casing is a very different animal on the PR-C. It's triangular profile makes it want to fall over in turns, and it puts down a better contact patch. The compound is also a revision.

The PR1 and PR2 are a round shape profile, not triangular. It has a much more consistent feel to how it turns. However, the casing is much softer than past Michelin's. You get a little less feedback, but a "smoother" turning tire. This did not make the tire very popular with the very fast riders, hence the PR-C was released.

The PR1 and 2 were excellent tires - I sold 530 sets this year alone - but to use Loudon as an example when you would start to get into the 17's -18's you would be better served with the PR-C.

2008 will bring another generation of Michelin DOT's. I'll post more when I know.