Using reference points to get fast

[Doc]

Even going as "slow" as I do around NHMS, soe of my reference points have changed. Example, when I used to do 1:30's, I would brake at the 4 board into T1. Now, I'm between the 2 and 3 boards at 1:26's.

What's the limit to how far in a reference point can be? When you hit the pavement?

The limit is your comfort level. I bet Pete is braking at the one.

[RyanNicholson]

There really isn't a ton to be said here that hasn't already been covered.

The only thing I'd add (which may have been mentioned) is that using these reference points is completely subjective and there really isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to interpret them. Much like body position, theres a good starting point when learning but everyone inevitably does it their own way.

Some people have 20983420398420394820894 points around the track, some have 3 or 4 in each corner. I personally probably have a metric shit ton of them that I don't even think about but use all the time, hidden behind the couple I pay attention to in each corner. It works well for me, other people may pay attention to more of them I dunno. Like Paul said, he doesn't like using cracks or marks on the track yet for me those are some of my favorite things to use.

Of course there are a number of spots everyone will share, like the painted box going into T1. Another advantage to marks like that, is you can stand in T1 and watch faster people practice/race and see where their line is in comparison to your RP's.

My only other tip would be (as Chuck figured out eventually)... don't brake at the 4 board.

[OreoGaborio]

What's the limit to how far in a reference point can be? When you hit the pavement?

When you're on the edge of traction the whole way in and you're not overbraking.

Never use a crash as an indicator of whether or not you can go faster, only an indicator that you somehow screwed it up.
Plenty of people have hit the pavement w/o hitting the limit.

[Ken C]

Never use a crash as an indicator of whether or not you can go faster, only an indicator that you somehow screwed it up.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

When you're on the edge of traction the whole way in and you're not overbraking.

Never use a crash as an indicator of whether or not you can go faster, only an indicator that you somehow screwed it up.
Plenty of people have hit the pavement w/o hitting the limit.

I belive the phrase is "going in too hot and running out of talent". I've never had a crash that couldn't be attributed to that. After I crash, I ask myself one question: Could Dana, BJ, Mark, Jeff, Eric, or for that matter Rossi have made that stick? If so, I fucked something up. I've never had my bike at it's limits, only my own.

[Doc]

I have to say that early last year I was working to get around the track and only hitting 1:25-26's. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong or why I wasn't going quicker (PB was a 1:22 at the time). I sat down and went over my notes and noticed the RP's I had written down that I hadn't been using! Dropped into the 1:22-23's and felt like I was doing alot less work to get there! Added a couple more after a class and started hitting 21's. Hoping to add some more and break into the teens this year. ;D

[Doc]

I've never had my bike at it's limits, only my own.

Same here.

[xsiliconkid]

Here's an exercise Paul, Ken, I and a couple of other racers would do during those long waits for your next race to come up.
click a stop watch while another person talks them self around the track for a lap.
At first you will be surprised how fast you get around a lap. Tells you, you don't have enough reference points committed to memory.

[KB]

So we don't clog the Novice to Amateur thread, there's a topic that sounded like it was good for discussion:

So, with everything you have to during a race

For me there isn't alot of things in a race I worry about other than

The start
Reference points
Reference points
Reference points

I ride my race for me and finish where I finish. I typically don't even know what position I am in unless I get the holeshot and remain out front for the entire race.

Only way to get real fast is to practice race and repeat.

Good luck this season!

KB

[Paul_E_D]

I hear you, Paul, however I don't agree with using cones since there are cases where they are tagged by riders and end up moving some distance in any given direction. Not sure if the T2 layout will be the same as last year but that turn is one example of people tagging cones where the cones move. When the new pavement was layed this proved to be a bit of an issue at one of our trackdays where people were cutting the corner. It was like the cones had legs. You'd come thru once and be fine, the very next lap "WHOA! Who moved that cone 4 feet up and out??!?"

Agreed Bergs, but I have more than a few reference points to "triangulate" my location. Moving one marker doesn't throw me off, because I have many. The cones are so easy to see, that they can be spotted well ahead in my field of vision, so they are good to use IMO.

Another benefit of having a lot of references is that you can start to connect the rhythm of your inputs with the marks. eventually, if you took away all the marks, you can still get through with precision based on rhythm and timing. Without a lot of references, your rhythm will vary wildly day to day, race to race.

[NeverlosT]

It amazes me how much the fast guys and racers must have to keep in their noggin, and being 100% comfortable riding the course probably helps that a lot. I have only done track days and it is all I can do to remember what gear I should be in where and my reference points, and I imagine the difference in my lap times is big lap to lap. Hats off to you guys that do all of that with other riders all getting gnarly in your immediate area.

[Doc]

For the record. I have yet to use reference points to get fast. I have just gotten less slow.

[Chippertheripper]

It amazes me how much the fast guys and racers must have to keep in their noggin, and being 100% comfortable riding the course probably helps that a lot. I have only done track days and it is all I can do to remember what gear I should be in where and my reference points, and I imagine the difference in my lap times is big lap to lap. Hats off to you guys that do all of that with other riders all getting gnarly in your immediate area.

The only difference between you and them is number of laps turned. They didn't accumulate all that info overnight. It takes time, $, talking lots with your homies and pitmates, and more $.

[OreoGaborio]

Doc's reference points suck

[OreoGaborio]

The only difference between you and them is number of laps turned. They didn't accumulate all that info overnight. It takes time, $, talking lots with your homies and pitmates, and more $.

While hanging with Degsy the other night after dropping off my suspension with Pete, we were talking about track days, racing etc and we had a funny little flashback to my first track days when he looked at me, shook his head & said "Man... I still remember the first time you came to VIR"

It was like my 3rd track day I think. I was such a friggin noob. Not that I'm the fastest guy out there or anything, but never in my life would I have predicted I'd be where I am in my rider development. Never coulda done it alone, either. I've gotten a ton of help over the years.

[CBR929RE]

Plenty of people have hit the pavement w/o hitting the limit.

I've heard a few people say "how did I crash going so slow" talking about when they were first starting out. I can include myself in that, a couple times.

[Ken C]

Not that I'm the fastest guy out there or anything, but never in my life would I have predicted I'd be where I am in my rider development.

I remember you at that VIR track day. You may have been slow, but I remember thinking you had potential. I guess I have an eye for such things.

[brady]

Some one posted an article from Eric W. and its all you need to read on reference points...

I couldn't find it on their website, so here's the relevant email Newsletter (skip to "points create the path" heading for the RP's stuff:


The staff at Penguin has been asked by a few industry publications to write articles to help riders learn the secrets of success on the racetrack. We were happy to give back to the motorcycle community, and thought that the subscribers to the Penguin Newsletter might enjoy these articles as well. We will be sending out monthly releases over the next year that we hope will offer you insight into how to become a better rider. If there are topics that you'd like to see, write us at info@penguinracing.com and let us know.....we're happy to tailor our writing to the needs of our students.

I hope that you'll take the opportunity to come out and see us in person as well. Our next event is at Homestead Miami Speedway on December 3rd and we'd love to see you there!

Part 1: Getting your head in the right place

To the outside observer, riding a sport bike is a physical! exercise that requires skill, balance, precision and perhaps a touch of bravery. Good physical condition and aptitude with the controls are certainly required, however, any rider who has experienced the track knows that mastering the art of riding at speed is as much a mental exercise as it is a physical one. Track day riders and racers alike will agree that it is most often the mental rigors of mastering the track that present the biggest hurdle when attempting to make progress. With this in mind, this article will discuss the mental preparation that is essential to improving your track skills with the greatest possible efficiency.

Power to improve
For many, the attraction of the track centers very much around the fact that the opportunities to learn and improve are seemingly limitless. When looking at this learning process, we find that most riders are able to make measurable progress when they hit the track with a single focus each sessi! on. When able to maintain this focus the process of working on! braking , body position or any other single technique will not tend to cause a rider to feel overwhelmed. However, the capacity for most riders to maintain this singular focus drastically diminishes when they have not done the requisite preparatory work. This work involves spending a little extra time early in the day in order to make available the mental processing power needed to work on this new skill.

Go slow to go fast
In order to have the capacity to think about any of the skills needed to gain confidence you first have to know exactly where you are going on the track. Kenny Roberts used to always say “learn to go slow in order to go fast”, and this simple concept has many applications. When applied to learning a racetrack, going slow early in the day will grant you the additional mental capacity you need in order to retain the information the track has for you. Fortunately, it only takes a small reduction in speed to allow a rider ! to relax and direct full attention to creating an invaluable set of reference points.

Points create the path
When there are not enough (or an absence of) reference points to create a complete picture of a line through a corner there are several problems created. Since there are no specific points to look for down the track a rider's vision tends to be drawn in to the road right in front of them. This not only increases the perception of speed but also leads to a lack of smoothness due to mid corner corrections. To understand why this happens one would only need to imagine the difficulty of walking straight to a target 300 feet away while looking straight down at your shoes. When riders become the most comfortable they typically have a minimum of three to four reference points per corner and are able to scan back and forth from one to the next, enabling them to visualize smooth path all the way from entrance to exit.

Priori! ties
Riders can typically learn 2-3 corners per ! session and should start memorizing the track in critical areas first. Fast corners, blind areas and big braking zones should be given priority as these tend to be the areas on a track that create the highest stress. Remember that the point of this process is to know exactly where you will go before you get there so that both your position on the track and the timing of your inputs are set. Uncertainty when it comes to things like brake points, turn points and apexes in critical corners will consume nearly all of your focus and attention. The anxiety of approaching a fast corner without precise references removes all of your filters and robs your attention from the primary goals you have set for that session.

Set the apex first
Once a rider has conquered the areas of highest stress, the next priority is to establish apexes, turn points and brake points for the remainder of the track. When you are at your apex you should generally be able to both see ! your exit point and be aimed towards it (the correct trajectory). The strategy in each corner is centered around the apex and this should be the first reference point you seek to obtain in each corner. In a future segment we will discuss the process of analyzing a corner to decide if the priority for your efforts will be to maximize entrance speed, roll speed or exit speed.

Turn point
With the apex set, riders should next establish a turn point that brings the motorcycle to the apex at the proper trajectory. A turn point that is too early will run you wide of your exit point and one that is too late will often cause you to miss the apex. As you gain speed, this turn point is the reference that will most often be subject to change. Apex points and trajectories tend to stay relatively constant once a corner strategy is determined. However, as braking gets deeper and entrance speed improves, the turning of the motorcycle tends to need to happen! earlier, more quickly, or a combination of both.

Exit Point
Your cue for when to open the throttle is triggered by your exit point. As your turn point brings you towards the apex you should be scanning up the track for your exit point. Ideally, as soon the a major part of your turning is done you will be able to see your exit point and start rolling on the throttle again. The earlier you are able to look up and draw the line from the apex to the exit, the slower you will feel you are going and the sooner you will crack the throttle.

Brake point
The final point to fine tune is the brake point (if your target corner has a brake point). Many riders tend to work on moving brake points up first, but this is a common mistake. A rider will set an early, safe brake point when first riding around the track and this is a good place to start. In the end, an ideal brake point can be described as one that brings you to your turn point at exactly the speed that allows you to make your apex. ! If riders attempt to decide this point before establishing mid corner and exit trajectory, the learning process gets halted as the entrance becomes a rush of scenery without a focus or goal.

Strategy Summary
When reference points are missing, a rider has to make an educated guess on where they should be and as a result consistency and confidence drop off. Taking the time to slow down and map out your strategy before attempting to ride hard will produce faster lap times, fewer mistakes and a vastly better mindset for learning. Lines and references points will require less and less of your attention, leaving ample space in your head to work on your riding...which is where we will begin next month.

All the best -

Eric Wood
Penguin Racing School Inc.

[The Snowman]

I couldn't find it on their website, so here's the relevant email Newsletter (skip to "points create the path" heading for the RP's stuff:

This article makes it sound like it's automatic.

I guess everyone used SOME reference points to a degree, but I assume that more widespread use is what makes you faster. That, and pushing those points further and further as you get faster.

[SVRACER01]

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I like doing track walks, but sometimes I get confused about my RPs. I walk around sometimes and think "is it this crack or that one?" Distance is so much different when you aren't going 100.
Sometimes I wish I could do track walks with a scooter or something, I think it would give me a better perspective.

["Dangerous" Dan K]

I'm still trying to figure out which animal NHMS is.

[Chippertheripper]

It's a cock'n'balls

[Doc]

While hanging with Degsy the other night after dropping off my suspension with Pete, we were talking about track days, racing etc and we had a funny little flashback to my first track days when he looked at me, shook his head & said "Man... I still remember the first time you came to VIR"

It was like my 3rd track day I think. I was such a friggin noob. Not that I'm the fastest guy out there or anything, but never in my life would I have predicted I'd be where I am in my rider development. Never coulda done it alone, either. I've gotten a ton of help over the years.

I remember when I was faster than Pete.

[Doc]

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I like doing track walks, but sometimes I get confused about my RPs. I walk around sometimes and think "is it this crack or that one?" Distance is so much different when you aren't going 100.
Sometimes I wish I could do track walks with a scooter or something, I think it would give me a better perspective.

Once a year you can!... it's called the "Larry Lap".

[SVRACER01]

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It's a cock'n'balls

No that's lightening at njmp.