carb cleaning

[greenmonster]

Anyone ever use carb cleaner with the carbs still mounted, and engine running, then spraying the cleaner into the carbs? Had any success doing it this way?
Or only when the carbs are removed and disassembled (partially or fully) for cleaning? This article may be a good resource in general...just scroll down to "carb cleaning 101".

Motorcycle Repair: kawasaki carb leek

[spydah]

I just went through diagnosing a problem on my sisters bike and it turned out to be gunked up carbs. I had to take them apart to clean them up. I don't see how spraying carb cleaner in while the bike is running would actually clean anything. It would just go straight through the carb and into the engine. Most of the buildup would be in the bowls and would block the jets. You need to take it apart to get access into there.

On the up side, its pretty easy to do that. Seems a bit intimidating at first, but once your in there its pretty much a no brainer. Just take it apart slowly and note where everything is and its position. Clean it all up, then put it back.

[greenmonster]

Thanks Spydah...I removed my carbs today and did some inspecting, etc. This would be the first time I've ever attempted this work, so I gained some good experience for doing things on my own. The problem was, I tried get one or two of the float covers off to at least have a look at the floats, but some of the screw heads were getting rounded, so I decided not to push my luck. Ive never actually taken a carb fully apart for cleaning, and without that experience, it can only lead to trouble! lol I have a Haynes manual Ive attempted to follow, but I feel that its a bit much for a first timer....especially since the bike has all these apparent carb issues with smoke, oil in the gas...take your pick of my threads!! Without the diagnostic experience required, things could go south in a hurry. So, things are status quo from last October...a shiny green boat anchor!
I'll just have to figure out what course to take next...

[spydah]

Under the float covers is likely where the problem is (in the bowles and around the floats and jets). What do you have to lose by trying a little harder on those screws? You can get used carbs on ebay for $75. A mechanic is going to charge you that just to pull the bike into his garage.

eBay Motors: 2003 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6 E ZZR ZZ-R600 Carburators Carbs (item 270235047554 end time May-12-08 18:29:19 PDT)

[keeena]

...I tried get one or two of the float covers off to at least have a look at the floats, but some of the screw heads were getting rounded...

Chances are those screws use a JIS (Japanese industrial standard) head and requires a special type of screwdriver. It looks similar to a Phillips head, but can be damaged by using a non-JIS driver/bit. JIS head is indicated by a small dot on the head of the screw.

Here is an excellent 9 page write up w/ pics on cleaning carbs...its specifically authored for the Suzuki GS bikes, but its basically the same for any CV carb.
The GSResources - Carb Rebuild Pg. 1 of 9

[greenmonster]

Chances are those screws use a JIS (Japanese industrial standard) head and requires a special type of screwdriver. It looks similar to a Phillips head, but can be damaged by using a non-JIS driver/bit. JIS head is indicated by a small dot on the head of the screw.

Here is an excellent 9 page write up w/ pics on cleaning carbs...its specifically authored for the Suzuki GS bikes, but its basically the same for any CV carb.
The GSResources - Carb Rebuild Pg. 1 of 9

Thanks, Keeena...funny you should mention it...once I saw those screw heads, I remembered a thread on here about JIS specs, and how rare the tools were availabilty-wise in the USA. That was when I started gritting my teeth! Frustrating, to say the least. You know of any local parts stores or stealers who stock them? I think theyre only available online? Thanks for the link too....

[greenmonster]

Under the float covers is likely where the problem is (in the bowles and around the floats and jets). What do you have to lose by trying a little harder on those screws? You can get used carbs on ebay for $75. A mechanic is going to charge you that just to pull the bike into his garage.

eBay Motors: 2003 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6 E ZZR ZZ-R600 Carburators Carbs (item 270235047554 end time May-12-08 18:29:19 PDT)

I tried giving them a little extra pressure and took it slowly, but I could see/feel that the head was nice and tight, and the philips head driver was rounding the head even more, ever so slightly. I had to back off...I took a look at it, and any more would've surely rounded it out. Fug!! It figures it was the shift side bowl/float I was trying to open...the one that is most likely stuck, which was suggested to me before...by Uncle Snake.

[greenmonster]

Oh, BTW...I did get everything put back on and buttoned up yesterday. Put in the new battery, new plugs, some more fresh gas...it took a while with priming, etc....but she finally started up. Guess what? Still smoking, just as it did last October when I shut her down til now. Only ran it for a minute or two...Theres fresh oil in her, and I'm hoping the "gas in the oil" problem didnt occur with such a short run time. I think the previous oil change with the gas in it (yet another thread of mine!) had been building up over time last summer/fall. This whole thing is a nightmare...it sucks big time. I only wish I had the know-how and tools to get deeper into this kind of work...Im supposed to meet up with some buds who are riding in from out of state to visit me in about a month...I gotta get this resolved or I'll be following them around in my SUV! I'm not trying to whine here...it's just very frustrating and I needed to vent a bit....and I appreciate everyone's help...this one and on other subjects in which I've sought advice.

[spydah]

Get those carbs off ebay... problem solved for $75 plus shipping. 3 hours left!

[spydah]

BTW I read somewhere that Radio Shack has a scredriver kit that includes JIS drivers.

[Paul_E_D]

Get a dremel and slot the screws using a cutting wheel. you'll still need to be careful with the flatblade getting them off, but it will work. You need to take the pilot jets out to clean.

But you need to take the head and cylinder off your bike to find the real problem... It's not gonna be cheap or particularly easy. I think you'll need new rings, and possible a piston and some cylinder repair.

[greenmonster]

Get a dremel and slot the screws using a cutting wheel. you'll still need to be careful with the flatblade getting them off, but it will work. You need to take the pilot jets out to clean.

But you need to take the head and cylinder off your bike to find the real problem... It's not gonna be cheap or particularly easy. I think you'll need new rings, and possible a piston and some cylinder repair.

Paul-I have a dremel to try that option. Geez...I hope it's not a ring/cylinder, etc. thing. One big PITA. I dont understand this....the bike has only 17k on it....would rings, etc. wear out that fast? Ive always babied this bike...Possibly a leaky valve guide seal(s) thats causing the smoke, instead of messed up carbs?

[Paul_E_D]

Well, MAYBE a stuck float or bad needle valve would let fuel into one chamber and it leaks past the rings. You can't really diagnose until you start taking things apart. Start with the carbs and go from there...

[JunoAF]

not sure if this helps or if you're past it but ive known guys that have replaced those screws with allen head screws. seemed to help out a LOT.

[keeena]

not sure if this helps or if you're past it but ive known guys that have replaced those screws with allen head screws. seemed to help out a LOT.

Good point.

Greenmonster - I didn't see your other posts after mine. You can often use a non-JIS screwdriver as long as you're careful. It can help to heat the bolt as well as give it a couple of taps w/ a hammer (use hammer to tap the screwdriver into the head). Using an open flame for heat will be interesting on carbs... Can use a heat gun or soldering gun in this case.

If you still need to break down carbs, I have a can of nearly new Carb Dip you're welcome to have.

[edit] And no, I don't know where I would buy JIS screwdrivers locally. Surprisingly enough I actually don't own any...just never seem to get around to buying a good set. Online is your best bet.

[BMFR6]

these are the screws holding the float bowl covers on?? impact driver??

[greenmonster]

Good point.

Greenmonster - I didn't see your other posts after mine. You can often use a non-JIS screwdriver as long as you're careful. It can help to heat the bolt as well as give it a couple of taps w/ a hammer (use hammer to tap the screwdriver into the head). Using an open flame for heat will be interesting on carbs... Can use a heat gun or soldering gun in this case.

If you still need to break down carbs, I have a can of nearly new Carb Dip you're welcome to have.
--*
[edit] And no, I don't know where I would buy JIS screwdrivers locally. Surprisingly enough I actually don't own any...just never seem to get around to buying a good set. Online is your best bet.

Thanks for the advice! Last week I actually got my bike started!! Had everything off right down to the carbs...had the gas tank swung around backwards, so I could still feed the carbs while the bike was running. I had set the fuel/air screws to 1.25 turns out. Bike ran fine. But...carb #1, where Ive got the pen pointing...gas was puddling in this area, just under the two brass fittings while it remained "dry" on the other carbs:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...r/100_1616.jpg

Bergs...sorry!! Timed out....

Anyway, I took off the float bowl cover (I used the phillips screw driver that came with the bike's tool kit...I figure it might be JIS lol), and lifted out the float and needle valve assembly. Looked ok, but...it may not be seating properly, and is letting gas get by the little cone shaped rubber seal and pooling where the pic shows. Looks like I'll have to order new parts from B-Bandit, but it's a shot in the dark as to whether this is the fix...If this doesnt work, has anyone here seen this problem before? I'm leery of going to a stealer...besides, I cant ride the bike there with this problem.

[butcher bergs]

Bike ran fine. But...carb #1, at the bottom of the

Is there more to this sentence?

[greenmonster]

Is there more to this sentence?

finished!! lol

[greenmonster]

So, I was wondering if anyone has seen or had this issue with a bike? If so, what did it turn out to be? When I had it apart, the float looked good. Think I'm on the right track with the fuel inlet needle valve assembly as the culprit?

[TLRMan]

So, I was wondering if anyone has seen or had this issue with a bike? If so, what did it turn out to be? When I had it apart, the float looked good. Think I'm on the right track with the fuel inlet needle valve assembly as the culprit?

They are called the needle valve and seat, it regulates fuel with the floats.
I have had numerous issues with these, and if they are even the slightest buggered up, (slices or nicks on the rubber part), replace them.
I have had fuel floats that have gotten soggy, (heavy), or floats (the brass kind), that have filled up with fuel. Sounds like a fuel level problem to me.
Does the fuel come pouring out of the overflow and on the ground?
If not, could be a float level problem. I have a gage to check that too.

[greenmonster]

They are called the needle valve and seat, it regulates fuel with the floats.
I have had numerous issues with these, and if they are even the slightest buggered up, (slices or nicks on the rubber part), replace them.
I have had fuel floats that have gotten soggy, (heavy), or floats (the brass kind), that have filled up with fuel. Sounds like a fuel level problem to me.
Does the fuel come pouring out of the overflow and on the ground?
If not, could be a float level problem. I have a gage to check that too.

Mark-I think my floats are plastic. I didnt notice any cracks, or that there was any gas inside it. The needle valve and seat...is that the piece with the rubber cone-shaped tip to it that is connected to the float with a small clip-like "tang"? I think that's the one youre referring to.
I dont have any gas on the ground. Where is the overflow? Is it a tube? In the pic I posted, where the pen is pointing is where gas is pooling, just below the brass inlet(?) fittings but its not happening in the other carbs. In the past, Ive noticed the smell of raw gas after the bike has been ridden, if that helps, info-wise. Could you use that gauge on mine to check it out while I have the bike running with the carbs exposed? Thanks in advance!