Changed Oil/Engine case covers... bike (05 R6) won't start

[viva_brasil]

Ok- so this weekend I changed the case covers on my bike with new woodcraft pieces (left side got scratched when I went down at Loudon). After the install my bike wouldn't start.

I put the key in the ignition, turn it on, all electronics work perfectly, then I flip the switch- fuel pumps are priming, but when I press the start button- nothing. And yes, the bike is in neutral, kickstand up, clutch in- and all kinds of variations of those, still won't start.

So we narrowed it down to the starter relay/solenoid... there are 4 wires that connect to the relay and when the ignition was on they all showed continuity- which is weird because that's what should happen when the ignition button is pressed (which would cause the starter motor to start). I think this could also happen if the solenoid is fried, but again not sure on that...

I have a scorpio alarm installed, but I went over the manual and it can't be the reason because it's not wired into anything relating to the ignition- but either way I will remove it.

Yamaha manual says to jump the relay- but I'm scared of shorting something... Any ideas??

any help is appreciated! thanks.

it's a 2005 R6.

[butcher bergs]

I've said it before and I'll say it again--> The first thing to break is the last thing you touched.

What electrical parts are located in the covers? That's where you should be looking.

Otherwise, is the handle bar switch turned to the "RUN" position?

[Manny]

say it again bergs!

[Degsy]

Stator electrical connection.

[viva_brasil]

We removed the stator cover and checked it all out- connections are fine... We aligned the coil that bolts to the inside of the cover just like the OEM cover.

Handlebar switch is in run position because that's when the fuel pumps prime.

Covers- it's the stator on the left, we checked that, and a timing sensor on the right. We matched everything up like it was on the OEM cover and then double checked it. What we should have done is see if the bike started before beginning the installation- though it was starting fine the day or two before. I'll probably check the timing sensor on the right hand side again because we didn't check that as thoroughly as the stator.

We're pretty sure it has to do with the starter relay/solenoid... does anyone have a continuity tester? If someone has an R6- and/or understands how the starter relay/solenoid work- could you contact me to potentially help out please?

thanks for the help guys- I'll triple check the covers.

[butcher bergs]

I re-read your post and the wording is kinda funny....is it that the starter motor isn't turning the engine over or is it that the bike is not firing (as in "won't start")?
If the engine's not turning over, then yes, look into the starter circuit (as you have already done).

we narrowed it down to the starter relay/solenoid... there are 4 wires that connect to the relay and when the ignition was on they all showed continuity- which is weird because that's what should happen when the ignition button is pressed (which would cause the starter motor to start). I think this could also happen if the solenoid is fried, but again not sure on that...

What is "they all showed continuity"? All 4 poles are showing continuity to each other? Keep in mind that as long as that solenoid is hooked up you'll likely show continuity somewhere such as the ground connections.

Yamaha manual says to jump the relay- but I'm scared of shorting something... Any ideas??

Jumping the solenoid is fine, just do it quick and hold the jumper in place.

If you have a pic of the solenoid it might help in figuring out which poles need to be jumped to (hopefully) turn the starter unless the book specifies which leads...?

[viva_brasil]

yea engine isn't turning over at all.

there's 2 leads with big wires connected to them- black and red- those go to the starter motor. Then there's a small box with 4 small wires going into it- one wire should only show continuity when the button is pressed in order to activate the solenoid.... but with the ignition on all 4 wires showed continuity to the lead (I think it was the lead)- which is strange. I think this could suggest a fried solenoid... but then that would mean that the starter motor would be cranking continuously as soon as the ignition is turned on...

The manual specifies to jump the leads on the relay (the two thick red and black wires). We assumed the solenoid is under it.

[Boston Moto]

both small wires to the relay should have 12v on them, then when you press the starter button, one wire drops to ground, giving you your 12v pd across the relay.

Clutch lever switch will cause the problem you are having.

[GixerJockey]

this must be the bike Ted called me about

[viva_brasil]

yes it is the same bike.

hmm- i'll check the clutch lever switch out too. pressing the button isn't changing anything in the reading of those wires... i.e. no wire is dropping to ground when we push the starter button.
We checked the wires in for the button as well... everything's fine.

[viva_brasil]

ok so we jumped the starter relay and the bike starts... any thoughts on this? bad relay? bad solenoid?

or should we still look at other electrical connections that could be causing the relay not to work (i.e. clutch cable connection- though the bike never needs to have the clutch pulled in- unless it's in 1st- to start).

[viva_brasil]

clutch connection checked- all good. Just ordered a new starter relay and i'm looking for a new starting circuit cut-off relay since that could be the problem too.

[viva_brasil]

installed new starter relay and starting circuit cut-off relay and it still won't start unless the relay is jumped...

when the key is in the "on" position, all 4 wires going into the relay show continuity.... one of them should stay ground and it's not- so that's the problem really.

Any ideas??

Does anyone here know more about electronics/circuits, etc.? Or have a way to test to see if the relays are functioning? There's a very slim chance that BOTH relays are bad- that the one I got on e-bay is bad too, or maybe the starting circuit cut-off relays- but I'd have to test them somehow.

Any help is appreciated!!!

[Degsy]

The ECU will need to recieve an 'ok' from all circuits (clutch switch, engine cut off, sidestand etc etc) and then the ECU will drop one 12v signal to the relay down to ground to allow the relay to pick. Do you have a wiring diagram or know of one I can download and take a look at for you?

[Degsy]

never mind. I found one. i'll take a look tomorrow for you.

derek

[viva_brasil]

Here's the link to one:

http://www.r6central.com/forums/down...ice_manual.pdf

Thanks, I appreciate it. I wish I could read those wiring diagrams...
I'm thinking maybe there's a short somewhere along the wire that's supposed to be dropping to ground?

[viva_brasil]

[Degsy]

Looks from that diagram like the starter switch supplies the ground to the starter motor through the starting circuit cut off relay (6). Check this relay out or swap it out. The cut off relay needs 8, 9 and 19 to be closed before it will pick. If that relay isn't picked it won't start.

Let me have a quick look at a real wiring diagram and I can tell you what wires to check. Are you familiar with looking for 12v and continuity with a multimeter?

[viva_brasil]

My friend had a thing that you connect to the battery ground and it's like a screw driver with a bulb in it and a needle point and if there's continuity it lights up- I'm guessing that'll work just like doing it with a multimeter?

And I did replace the starting circuit cut off relay. I know in the manual there's a troubleshooting process which is to test continuity in this relay- I'll try that out.

And the starter switch should drop one of the 4 wires to ground and that cranks the starter motor, but it's not doing that.
I think it's supposed to be 2 wires always have continuity, one wire is always ground, and one wire drops to ground only while the starter switch is pressed.
Right now when the key is turned to the on position all 4 wires have continuity- and no ground at all.

[viva_brasil]

looking at 8, 9, and 10- there was some oil that got on the sidestand switch, don't think that could've done anything.

The clutch switch- I never have to pull the clutch in to start the bike, but according to this I need to have the clutch in to close that switch? I guess I'll check the clutch switch closer. Should I test for continuity on these switches?

[GixerJockey]

It's a safety switch. The bad clutch or sidestand switch is preventing power from going through the starter solenoid. By jumping the solenoid you are bypassing the safety switch.

Unplug the clutch switch first. Jump the plug with a paper clip. If it doesn't start then do the same thing with the side-stand switch. It's one of the two.

[Degsy]

OK, let's get some definitions straight.

Continuity=connection between one end of a wire and the other. It does not mean 12v.
The circuit tester your friend has is for checking 12v, not for continuity.

The clutch switch and neutral light is an or circuit. In neutral you don't need the clutch, in gear, you do.

[Degsy]

It's a safety switch. The bad clutch or sidestand switch is preventing power from going through the starter solenoid. By jumping the solenoid you are bypassing the safety switch.

Unplug the clutch switch first. Jump the plug with a paper clip. If it doesn't start then do the same thing with the side-stand switch. It's one of the two.

Or a bad relay, or a broken wire, or a bad ground.

[viva_brasil]

ok i'll test those switches.

and I'll search online for how to test for continuity with an ammeter.

[Degsy]

ok i'll test those switches.

and I'll search online for how to test for continuity with an ammeter.

Set multimeter to Ohms (omega sign). put probes each end of a wire to check to see if it is not broken somewhere. Put one probe on a wire and the other on ground to check for a short to ground.

Be careful not to check continuity across a live circuit, you'll blow the meter up and maybe more.