Comparison Question

[DucDave]

I know there are a few competent wrenchers here and I have a question for those who have experience with both...

Overall, is there any substantive difference in servicing inline 4's vs Ducati's. If there's a big difference between 2 valve/4 valve call it out. And if there is a big difference between like I4's between brands lets here that too.
I'd expect some very general answers as well as some specific ones...it's all good!

I prefer to here from those with direct experience as hearsay is not admissable!

I am purely curious. I have no agenda, preconceived POV...

[Pigman]

Night and Day.......Ducati's needs regular service and a tech... I4's needs nothing but OIL changes and minor service---chain, breaks etc. I beat the shit out of my 1k and still not a single issue or the need of a dealer to touch it. Simple answer too is look at the current stunt bikes being used and what they are riding.....NO one stunts a Duc why? Cause it wouldn't last 5min...but it’s just a different animal than I4's and built for a Different reason.

[DucDave]

Night and Day.......Ducati's needs regular service and a tech... I4's needs nothing but OIL changes and minor service---chain, breaks etc. I beat the shit out of my 1k and still not a single issue or the need of a dealer to touch it. Simple answer too is look at the current stunt bikes being used and what they are riding.....NO one stunts a Duc why? Cause it wouldn't last 5min...but it’s just a different animal than I4's and built for a Different reason.

Shawn...It doesn't look like you have any actual experience servicing Ducati's based on your comment that you need regular service and a tech. (Not arguing here but looking for facts...and the maintainence window on newer Ducatis is 15k for valves.) Also, I know that I've seen a dozen stunters on Ducati's of all sorts. A quick one off search shows it wasn't my imagination!

Tricky/Degsy/Scottie...????

[Falko]

Not overly specific, but balancing throttle bodies always seemed much easier on a twin than a four. Almost half the work for some reason.

[Pigman]

Sean...It doesn't look like you have any actual experience servicing Ducati's based on your comment that you need regular service and a tech. (Not arguing here but looking for facts...and the maintainence window on newer Ducatis is 15k for valves.) Also, I know that I've seen a dozen stunters on Ducati's of all sorts. A quick one off search shows it wasn't my imagination!

Tricky/Degsy/Scottie...????

Really.............um Guess your age is showing cause at XDL there isn't even a single one at all.......but I guess you Googled that LOLOL

[MaRce1o]

Not overly specific, but balancing throttle bodies always seemed much easier on a twin than a four. Almost half the work for some reason.

Half the throttle bodies? Lol

[jeantarrou]

I'm looking forward to experiencing this first hand. After wrenching on rc51's for the past decade and just purchasing a hyper I'm really curious to either confirm or debunk the maintenance reputation of the Ducati.

Probably because of that rep I feel like I'm prepared to work on the duc more frequently, but I'm hoping I enjoy it as much as I did on the Honda?

[Chippertheripper]

You're also comparing a fully mechanical valve train to a more conventional spring closing system.
In a nutshell that's why the ducs need the more rigorous maintenance.
After the seacoast seminar I liken the duc valve service (2v specifically) to the drz400 owners always saying that ktm's are maintenance whores. Once you learn how to do it, it's as simple as an oil change.

But yes, it's a more frequent schedule, it's a totally different animal. I'm pretty sure that honda specs the cbr1k for its first valve CHECK at 30k miles. That's check, not adjust. (That's what the tech was saying).

Edit: the service is essentially the same though. Check the clearances, and adjust to spec (if out at all).

[MHenry600]

I'm pretty sure that honda specs the cbr1k for its first valve CHECK at 30k miles. That's check, not adjust. (That's what the tech was saying).

My 600 says 16k for a check. Nearly everybody that opens them up at that point says they are good, so I waited til 30-35k, and they were still fine then. I'm just about at 50k on it now, and I'll probably wait til at least next winter to check them again.

In 50k, the only engine based maintenance I've done is check the valves (within spec) and replace the spark plugs, since I was that deep anyway. Other than that it's been a couple air filter changes, oil changes, brakes, tires, chain, etc.

[GixerJockey]

I'll tell you in a couple months when I tackle the valve check and belts on my Monster...

[nhbubba]

Not all I4's are created equal. My bandit had valves that were easy to DIY because it had conventional nut and screw adjusters. No shims to screw with like most higher perf bikes.

[TheIglu]

I think it is more V2's vs Inline 4's.

Inline 4 is a single valve cover. Single cam chain. Two cams. But twice the valves. Though actual measurement/adjustment is the fastest part of the job, and let's keep in mind that the Desmo valve train has twice as many shim/adjustment points. So actual adjustment numbers are the same for 16v I4 vs 8v V2 if the V is a Desmo Duck.

V-Twins means another valve cover, cam chain and set of cams to go after. So there is a significant doubling of effort in that respect.

I've done and continue to do both with regards to my current stable. Worst of both worlds is a tight fitting V4.....


Now keep in mind that I don't have a desmo, my v's are traditional spring/shim under bucket. But I do have cam removal as a requirement which is significantly more complex than the sliding rocker arm like on my ZRX.

[Kurlon]

I have to drop my motor to check my valves, do I get an award for that?

[Chippertheripper]

No, because it fits in the palm of your hand.

[Kurlon]

No, because it fits in the palm of your hand.

I sold that bike, I'm talking about the Fizzer.

[The Snowman]

How about Aprilia V-twins? Specifically 2nd gen RSV Mille/Tuonos. Same maintenance nightmares as Ducatis or not?

[Chippertheripper]

Define maintenance nightmare, chuckles.

[Kurlon]

Define maintenance nightmare, chuckles.

Yeah, I haven't known modern Ducs to be any more maint needy than other bikes, save for belt replacements.

[Degsy]

In order of pain in the ass (easiest to hardest) in my opinion. This is for valve adjustments. Everything else is pretty much the same, although ducati belts are way way easier to install than a cam chain.

Japanese v-twin with locknut adjust- easy peasy blindfolded
Japanese v-twin with cam gears - easy peasy with practice
Ducati 2 valve air cooled - easy peasy with practice and special tools
japanese inline 4 shim under bucket - easy-ish with practice.
ducati 4 valve or testa - a little harder because more math and time consuming and a little awkward (not much room)
ducati testa "R" motor. Fuck that. Take heads off and adjust on bench.

To get ducati valves "in spec" is very easy. To get them EXACTLY where you want them and all the same takes time, patience and practice. I have done many valve adjustments on ducs and always to exact specs (not just "in spec") and it takes me a long long time after sanding shims, trial and error etc.

bottom line, they are similar in degree of difficulty, but different in technique.
If you dont enjoy doing valves, its a pain in the ass whatever bike you are working on.

Ducati valve lash has more effectnon performance than jap i4 lash does. Partly due to the fact that belts are already a little less accurate for cam timing (stock).

YMMV. This is just my opinion.

[Tricky Mike]

I dunno.. I like working on the Duc. Not really sure why, but I enjoy it more than the I4s I've owned. I suppose I just approach them with a different mentality. I think because of that I spend much more time than I need to working on the Duc. Someone who doesn't understand the motivation could potentially conclude that the bike always needs work. Most of the time it doesn't NEED work, but I do it anyway because I enjoy the process.

I think the urban myth that Ducs need so much more work is in some part just that... urban myth. Yeah, the parts are generally more expensive and there's some stuff that seems weird at first, like cam belts with tension measured in Hz, but theres usually a reason for the weirdness. In the case of the cam belts, measuring the frequency is a really effective way to determine belt tension. Beats the shit out of most of the automatic cam chain tensioners on Japanese I4's. Even the manual tensioners are really imprecise by comparison.

Yeah, the maintenance schedules are different, but Chip's right... they're different animals. I dunno. I just look at them differently. Sort of like a CBR vs a CRF. Just different animals with different care/feeding needs.

[The Snowman]

Define maintenance nightmare, chuckles.

Valve adjustments every 5 miles or so.

[Chippertheripper]

Valve adjustments every 5 miles or so.

You silly.
To answer your question, I have no idea about the apes.
Prolly more frequent than yer cbr, yet less maintenance overall than a 125 gp machine.

[Kurlon]

You silly.
To answer your question, I have no idea about the apes.
Prolly more frequent than yer cbr, yet less maintenance overall than a 125 gp machine.

Now you've done it, Roland is going to come in here and berate us all for that comment, between rejettings and top end refreshes, if he gets the time...

[Rosco61]

My Tuono needed them checked at the first service then not again till 12000 miles. we checked my friends at 12000 and it was in spec. I have heard of them staying in spec at 30000. That Rotax is pretty bullet proof and mine required no maintenance other than an oil change. They do have a dry sump oil system so the oil change is a bit more involved but very easy anyway.

[R7]

My I4's (Yamaha) in the past have required nothing other than oil changes. I wasted my money on a valve check on one of the R1's i had at 28,000 miles, only to be told they were all in spec. It is comforting to know the first valve check is at 26k, more comforting to know it can probably go 50k before they need an adjustment.
So far, my Italian vs the Yamaha, the Italian is a bit less to maintain. Only reason, the oil filters are about $5 less each for the OE Aprilia filter vs the OE Yamaha filter. I use the same oil, change at the same interval no matter what the manuals say with any bike I have.
Not as confident the Italian will make the first valve adjustment interval (12K) and not need to be adjusted. Even with 5K on it now, it sounds like a few of the valves want to get out and get some fresh air! No idea what it will cost yet, but just guessing it will be waaaaaaaay more than the possible $30 in oil filters saving over the Yamaha