LEDs and current draw

[stoinkythepig]

That relay will work perfectly. I have one just like it in my bike for the grip heaters and a 5V USB port. There's no way grip heaters will ever weld the contacts shut, they just don't draw enough current. Mine's been in service for 11 years and 103,000 miles without issues. Use a 5 amp or 7.5 amp fuse.

[breakdirt916]

Cool!

Can you hear it at freeway speeds??

[jasnmar]

Mount it on the dash so you can see it and you don't have to worry about hearing it.

[stoinkythepig]

If you are concerrned, you can easily test the charging system with a volt meter. Measure your batter voltage with the bike off. Start the bike and turn on the grip heaters, then measure the voltage again. If the voltage is higher the second time, the charging system is keeping up with the load and charging the battery, if it's lower, the charging system is not keeping up with the load and the battery is discharging. If the running voltage is lower, try revving the engine a little and see if the voltage increases above idle speed. If it takes just a little extra RPM to get the charging system to make adequate power, you are good to go.

[nhbubba]

I have a Signal Dynamics Voltage Indicator on my motorcycle. It is very compact and easy to mount on a motorcycle. The display is just a single, multi-color LED. Red => bad, green => good. Blinking red => really bad. Easy as that.

I believe it saved me from greater problems when my stator failed recently.

[breakdirt916]

okay, might as well update...

finally installed the symtec grip heaters

electrical wise - FZR impressed me; no dimming under load...just when at idle (doesn't matter; most of my commute is freeway)

I got lazy on the relay...I just tapped directly into my rear running light. I figure since I already saved 16w on the rear running lights by using LED's, I just powered the grips directly off of that lead.

they're not perfect, but they're pretty good. my thumbs don't get as warm as I'd like, but this sure does beat putting my gloves on the motor to capture a few seconds of warmth

I just need a snazzy, waterproof switch that's easy to mount

[stoinkythepig]

I just need a snazzy, waterproof switch that's easy to mount

A basic on-off-on (spdt) toggle with one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toggle-Switc...item43c166f612 works great.

[soofle616]

Personally while I see no issues running the coil side of the relay off the taillight circuit, I wouldn't run the actual power side off that circuit. It should be safe, and should not overload the wiring at all but best practice is a fused link off the battery to the power side of the relay and only take the signal (coil) power off an existing switched circuit.

What follows is a long drawn out thought process to explain why I say that.

You did not save 16 watts changing your taillight bulbs. The low power filament in the stock bulbs is 8watts for a total of 16. The high power filament (brake light) is typically around 26watts for a total of 52. The replacement bulbs you put in draw (based on an assumption since the picture you posted is no longer visible) .165 amps or 2 watts for a total of 4. Presumably the dimmed state of those bulbs is achieved by running power through a resistor before it gets to the LED's themselves (this is typically how it's done so it's a safe assumption) so you're using 4 regardless of whether your braking or not. So when braking you are now using 4 watts instead of 52, thus saving 48w or 4amps. Under all other conditions you are using 4 watts instead of 16 thus saving 12 or 1 amp.

The 194's you replaced draw 2.7 watts. The new ones draw between 40-90mA depending on the color you got. I'll use 50 since most colors are right around there. .05x12x3 = 1.8 watts so you're saving 6.3 watts or .53 amps there.

So you've reduced your current load 1.5 to 4.5 amps depending on whether your braking or not. Assuming the grips are 36 watts (3amps) you're total load has increased by 1.5 amps whenever the grips are on and decreased by 1.5 amps when the grips are on and you're braking. Given that you're not braking far more than you are braking, your total average current draw has definitely increased.

[breakdirt916]

yep, I know you're right...I was thinking about this on my ride in...I'm going to install the relay

and yeah it's ok...I'm sure the LED's helped, but I think the fzr charging system can handle it regardless

[stoinkythepig]

yep, I know you're right...I was thinking about this on my ride in...I'm going to install the relay

and yeah it's ok...I'm sure the LED's helped, but I think the fzr charging system can handle it regardless

I would not bother. The wiring you tapped into is fused. The wire size is dictated by load and the load dictates the fuse size. If the fuse does not blow with the added load, the wire is already adequate.

[gadget]

just a side note correction:

A standard relay will change states when power is applied and removed, regardless of it being Solid State or Mechanical.

If it is a Latched relay, it will stay in whichever state it is in when the power is removed, regardless of being Solid State or Mechanical.


btw I do not know if your make and model has a substandard power rectifier but my 2009 Triumph Tiger does and replacing it with higher quality one that is much more efficient makes a huge difference in making amps available for accessories.

[RandyO]

The rear brake lights (27Wx2) alone will total 54 watts, which will more than cover any additional power consumption by the heated grips

brake lights only draw amps when the brakes are on

unless yer a constant brake rider there is no significant savings, same for turn signals, they are on only momentarily won't kill the battery the few momments they are

only lamps worthwhile changing to LED are those that are constantly on tail light, running lights, license plate light, headlamps

[breakdirt916]

true true...

stoinky - so I've been running the grips off the taillight running lamp wiring and nothing's blown so far - will I ever have to worry about that?

part of me is uncertain - what if there's somehow a current increase (engine rpm's?) and the taillight fuse pops...the thing that would suck about that is I'd lose my grips, but also my taillights...which, you won't tell until you get rear ended at night or you pull over...

but if a current surge is pretty much impossible with a voltage regulator, then I should be all set

and for switches - thanks for the link to the waterproof cover, but don't they make any switches that are waterproof on the back? it seems like the terminal connections are where you're most likely to get a short ??

[RandyO]

true true...

stoinky - so I've been running the grips off the taillight running lamp wiring and nothing's blown so far - will I ever have to worry about that?

part of me is uncertain - what if there's somehow a current increase (engine rpm's?) and the taillight fuse pops...the thing that would suck about that is I'd lose my grips, but also my taillights...which, you won't tell until you get rear ended at night or you pull over...

but if a current surge is pretty much impossible with a voltage regulator, then I should be all set

and for switches - thanks for the link to the waterproof cover, but don't they make any switches that are waterproof on the back? it seems like the terminal connections are where you're most likely to get a short ??

no current increase when you rev engine, electrical devices draw what they draw for amps, what increases is voltage, wattage(brightness) will increase cause watts = amps x volts

[z3dsp33d]

Has anyone dealt with the strobeing LED's for tail lights or turn signals. You know, the ones that send a driver straight for they're brake pedal. I am interested in these for my next bike.

[stoinkythepig]

true true...

stoinky - so I've been running the grips off the taillight running lamp wiring and nothing's blown so far - will I ever have to worry about that?

part of me is uncertain - what if there's somehow a current increase (engine rpm's?) and the taillight fuse pops...the thing that would suck about that is I'd lose my grips, but also my taillights...which, you won't tell until you get rear ended at night or you pull over...

but if a current surge is pretty much impossible with a voltage regulator, then I should be all set

and for switches - thanks for the link to the waterproof cover, but don't they make any switches that are waterproof on the back? it seems like the terminal connections are where you're most likely to get a short ??

If the fuse has not blown, it's all good.


Most toggle switches that can be fitted with those waterproof covers are decently sealed on the back. That said, have a look at all the OEM switches on your bike, I bet none but the ones inside the engine cases are sealed.

[breakdirt916]

bitchin, I'm not touching it

Has anyone dealt with the strobeing LED's for tail lights or turn signals. You know, the ones that send a driver straight for they're brake pedal. I am interested in these for my next bike.

yes

I installed these 1157 LED's to replace my factory incandescent bulbs:



got this LED brakelight strobe flasher for $4.95



https://www.superbrightleds.com/more...odule/195/845/

it strobes for 0.4 seconds, flashes slowly for 2.5 seconds, then steady

but nowadays you can get the 1157 LED bulb with a flasher built in:



http://www.superbrightleds.com/morei...sher/923/2274/

[z3dsp33d]

yes

Thanks!

[breakdirt916]

Bad news...even on low, after a 35 min ride, the battery is dead when I start my bike to go home...

How can I tell if it's a bad battery or if my charging system can't keep up?

[z3dsp33d]

Bad news...even on low, after a 35 min ride, the battery is dead when I start my bike to go home...

How can I tell if it's a bad battery or if my charging system can't keep up?

Your accessories could be drawing current from the battery faster than the battery can be recharged. Thus leaving the battery in a state of constant discharge and putting it below the threshold of being able to power your bike.

Try measuring the charging system with a multi meter. Measure in Volts and amps. Start the bike and see if the output from the battery goes up. Then measure volts and amps under load(higher rpm) and see if the current goes up, stays the same, or goes down.

You might need a high capacity (Measured in Mili-amps-per hour) battery to supports the extra current draw from accessories.

I hope this helps in troubleshooting your electrical issue.

[jasnmar]

Most normal humans won't have a multimeter. Those abnormal humans who have one aren't likely to have one that will measure the range of amps were talking about here and will likely end up with a nonfunctional multimeter if they try this.

Getting a higher capacity battery will not help if you are pulling more than you are generating. It will let you go slightly farther with a good charge before failing.

If you're pulling more than you're making you can extend things, but you still have to have a plan to get things fully recharged frequently.

As with most things charging related, get a good charge on the battery and load test it. If that passes then we need to look deeper. If that doesn't pass it doesn't mean that's the only problem.

[nhbubba]

Measuring voltage is cheap and easy. Measuring voltage will probably tell you enough to guess at what is going on.

I really like this signal dynamics led thingie. It is small, relatively cheap, and relatively idiot proof. I'll probably install one on any/every primary street bike I ever own from here on out.

But I also wouldn't be above zip-tieing a cheap multimeter to the bike for a day either.

[ZX-12R]

Multimeters up to the task can be had for fairly short money these days. Don't worry about measuring current at this point since doing so is NOT trivial unless you have special harnesses and jumper wires made up.

Since you mentioned earlier that your lights dim when you turn on the directionals, there is a very good chance your charging system is under performing. You will need a shop manual to guide you but the typical checks include voltage at the battery at specific rpms, blown diodes in the rectifier, stator resistance, and raw stator voltage at specific rpms.

[MattR302]

Search ebay for "waterproof led voltmeter" - I put one of these $4 china ones on the inner fairing of my FZ6. It was within 0.1 volts of a fancy power supply I tested it on at work. If the voltage starts dropping too low, I shut off my heated gear. I've got another one coming for my DR350.

[breakdirt916]

arrghh...I bought a $40 multimeter when I lived at my parents' house in MA, and when I came back to visit, they lost it.

I think they're even free with purchase @ harbor freight...but I'll swing by sears and get one

for the on-bike ones - don't they only help you when the bike is off? ie. when the bike is running, the alternator spins the voltage up to 13-14vdc, so the on-board meter (since it reads active voltage) will perceive the "running" voltage as the battery voltage...not if the battery is dead or not.

but meh, just ordered the signal dynamics LED light thingie...