Should be riding! @$%

[akira700]

So took advantage of the warmer weather and the new delivery from
Bike Bandit to get out the tools and get to work. What a mess huh?



Still futzing around to get to the bottom of my short circuit issue.
Been around the block with already for last year or so trying to get
to the bottom of it.

So now I'm gonna one by one replace everything electrical until the
issue is resolved.

So far I have swapped out both side handlebar switch clusters, the ignition
switch, front sub-harness, pulled the Power Commander, Cam Position Sensor, Headlight Relay... Its been in a couple minor accidents so something must have gotten tweaked.

Next on my radar is an aftermarket Third Eye LED that's in there.

[Rambunctous]

You need to learn how to use a VOM. Learn to test parts. Guessing till you find it costs $$$.

[OreoGaborio]

Wirelessly posted (Samsung Lube.... Er, Glyde: Mozilla/5.0 440x240 Samsung SCH-U940 NetFront/3.4)

I bet it's the wiring between your ears that's causing the short Good luck figuring it out, bro.

[akira700]

You need to learn how to use a VOM. Learn to test parts. Guessing till you find it costs $$$.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion...
Yeah I know... I have been using one but its hard to be systematic
with the issue in an area that encompasses so many components.
My headlights either are dim or are non-existant. When the drain gets
to a certain level the bike will stall and not start anymore. Or will start but
die when the starter button is released. Sometimes hitting the turn signals
kills it. I have double and triple checked the wires to headlights and also
the signals, all the grounds, fuses, etc...

Anyway can I ask you a question?
How do you test the relays? Guessing you set up a mini alligator clip rig
that goes from the bike to relay?

You don't know how many different folks have taken a stab at it and
how much money I have spent. Only to get it back the same!
But my thinking is at this point I think its cheaper time wise to
just brute force it and replace everything!

[akira700]

Wirelessly posted (Samsung Lube.... Er, Glyde: Mozilla/5.0 440x240 Samsung SCH-U940 NetFront/3.4)

I bet it's the wiring between your ears that's causing the short Good luck figuring it out, bro.

loser! I got your short right here ;-)

[Rambunctous]

The function of a relay is to allow a low amperage circuit to power a high amp circuit. For instance, in your starter it is the highest amperage device on your bike. It would not be practical to run the rather large positive cable up to the handle bars and have a huge starter switch that could handle the current. So to get around this they use a big switch(relay) which is activated by another smaller switch(handlerbar start button) which usually works via a electromagnet. You can benchtest this by removing the relay and applying direct current to it where the wire from the handlebar would be. Using the ohm part of your VOM connected to the positve from the battery and then down to your starter you will see the neddle swing in a old style VOM or the digits increase in a electronic one. Using a test light if it has a internal short it can be revealed her by touch ing two large wires....The voltage applied from the outside power source to the electromagnic portion of the relay should not leak into the other side. This applies for horn relays,etc......I hope this does not confuse you. I simply am not a technical writer.

[butcher bergs]

I have been using one but its hard to be systematic
with the issue in an area that encompasses so many components.

It's not that bad....just gotta find everything that's being affected by the issue and locate what's common between them all. That will help you zero in on a component or perhaps a wire in particular. Throwing parts at it will teach you nothing. I'd be willing to bet your issue isn't related to anything other than a broken or chafed wire. It's all about Ohming harnesses at this point and IMHO.



BTW; if you think this is a challenge, you'd hate seeing the wire diagrams for the machines I work on.

[wiggeywackyo]

to what Bergs said. Grab a wiring diagram and find the common link.

Bergs, what do you work on? I work with semi-con steppers, wiring diagrams are a must.

[scubasteveRR]

Maybe your charging systems isn't working properly, did you try the Regulator/rectifier unit yet?

[wiggeywackyo]

From what I see, I don't think it's a charging issue. IMO it looks like the lighting circuit is dragging down the ignition.

[butcher bergs]

Bergs, what do you work on? I work with semi-con steppers, wiring diagrams are a must.

SMT equipment.

[Rambunctous]

By his original post I cannot determine if he has a charging issue or a short circuit.

[akira700]

Maybe your charging systems isn't working properly, did you try the Regulator/rectifier unit yet?

Yeah that was tested and looked to be AOK.
I have two different batteries and both exhibit the same issues.
so it could be that both batteries are bad, but I had one load tested
and it was ok.
Anyway both batteries will go dead after about 2 weeks in the bike.
Yes there is above acceptable drain on the battery with the key on OFF.

[wiggeywackyo]

Next on my radar is an aftermarket Third Eye LED that's in there.

That seems like a very likely suspect IMO.

[Kurlon]

Yeah that was tested and looked to be AOK.
I have two different batteries and both exhibit the same issues.
so it could be that both batteries are bad, but I had one load tested
and it was ok.
Anyway both batteries will go dead after about 2 weeks in the bike.
Yes there is above acceptable drain on the battery with the key on OFF.

I'd start with the drain when off. Hook up an amp meter, and start unplugging things one at a time till the drain goes down.

[Rambunctous]

It is rather easy now. Diconnect the positive on the battery. Insert either a test light or a VOM between the cable and the positive post. Remove a fuse at a time till the light goes out. Presto! You have located which circuit. Now reinstall the fuse and start undering various components and harness connectors in that circuit one at a time until you have located/isolated the issue.

[Rambunctous]

I'd start with the drain when off. Hook up an amp meter, and start unplugging things one at a time till the drain goes down.

Since it was in a accident. Though I do not know which type a usual suspect is to look where the harness exits/enters the handlebars. Whatcha think Kur-Man?

[akira700]

It is rather easy now. Diconnect the positive on the battery. Insert either a test light or a VOM between the cable and the positive post. Remove a fuse at a time till the light goes out. Presto! You have located which circuit. Now reinstall the fuse and start undering various components and harness connectors in that circuit one at a time until you have located/isolated the issue.

Ok so this method of attack seems so obvious, not sure why it never occurred to me.

Thanks you all! Just looking at the wiring diagram is like fahk!
If this works out, Rambunctous, Kurlon, I'm gonna owe yas.

[akira700]

Ok so I took the advise of Rambunctous and Kurlon
and ran a current leakage test and the results are in.

Maybe you more experienced folks can analyze this and
give me some advise on my next step. Main issue is bike will not
stay running after I thumb the starter. And I know there is a short.

The bike bleeds 11 mA, where only less than 2 mA max is
acceptable, all set up. So I proceeded to yank each and every fuse to
narrow down the short. Turns out that with ALL fuses out there
is still a short. Even with the main fuse under the seat out!

So what does this tell us? Is it the Main wire harness before it gets
to the fuse box? But wouldn't the main fuse rule that out?

Bike will start and stay running if I disconnect the headlights.
With headlights connected it starts then dies right after I let go of the
starter button. I suspect that this because the headlights take the electrical
drain below the required amount the keep the bike running and its not the
primary cause of the short. Otherwise yanking the headlight fuse should
have stopped the 11 mA drain, right?

Anyway if you got ideas its welcome! I'm stumped at this point!

[R1]

have you checked grounds for tightness?

they will all be physical connections to either the frame or the fuse block, and should all be tied together.

a bad ground will appear as a short when in fact its just a bad connection

start at your grounds and trace them back if you still suspect a short

use a piece of paper and write down the circuits that you already tested to avoid redundancy.

if you find at the end you still cant find the short then it may be internal i.e. a circuit has burned up and tracing through wires really wont help your situation.

problem here is that yes your headlights are on of the symptoms you are seeing the problem may lie somewhere different and the lights are just suffering the excess current/reduced current/excess voltage/reduced voltage

[R1]

btw do you use any type of wire splicing on your bike? for example the little clip that comes with the power programmers?

these can cause hell

[richw]

Sounded like intermittent ground to me

also possible corrosion based short

[akira700]

Yeah I have checked all the grounds. So I dont think its there.
No plastic wire splicing things either.

I need to look over the wiring diagram and see what I can
find.

[richw]

Just a note for you

a short can take power from the system that should get it and ground it through another system like a bulb or other starter etc

[akira700]

So big thanks to my man Mike (Rambunctous) for standing outside with
me for a whole half day with his multimeter and going over the
wiring diagram yesterday!

Seems we have narrowed it down to either a shorted turn signal
relay (which would suck as its integrated into the whole instrument panel and its a $600 part) or its in the fuel pump. Need to do a little more sleuthing to figure out the rest!