Secondary butterflies..

[toocrazy2yoo]

All the rage to pull these out of the Ninja12 and 14 and Concours14's throttle bodies apparently, but the dealer doesn't do it. Anyone here with the Ninja 12 or 14 that's done it? Is it really worth it, or just a warranty-risk?

[KawiSmurf]

That's a pretty popular mod for my bike too. Never done it myself, but a lot of others have done it on the 650R forums. AFAIK, you might need to reprogram the fuel management (PCIII) to compensate for the change in throttle response. I'm satisfied with the throttle response I have after all the other mods I've done, so I see no need to yank them...yet.

[Karaya One]

Big with the V-Strom guys too. I left mine alone. Runs fine.

[toocrazy2yoo]

Yeah, I'll leave mine be too. But North Reading has Power Commander advertising all over the shop, and they won't touch the flies. I'll have to settle for this slow piece of shit Concours just the way it is..

[ssg]

Why are they in there?

[jcbell1007]

They smooth our throttle response, or at least thats what I have read on the interwebs.

I pulled mine on my ninja 650r when I had it. Did that and pulled the two rubber snorkels from the airbox (not the intake stacks) and saw a major improvement in throttle response. Put a PCIII on it after coupled with my arrow slip on and it was a completely new bike.

It was easy on the 650. two little screws to remove the secondary butterflies (also called sub-throttle plates). left the shaft in there to spin to avoid the fi light. super easy and cheap mod.

[toocrazy2yoo]

They smooth our throttle response, or at least thats what I have read on the interwebs.

I pulled mine on my ninja 650r when I had it. Did that and pulled the two rubber snorkels from the airbox (not the intake stacks) and saw a major improvement in throttle response. Put a PCIII on it after coupled with my arrow slip on and it was a completely new bike.

It was easy on the 650. two little screws to remove the secondary butterflies (also called sub-throttle plates). left the shaft in there to spin to avoid the fi light. super easy and cheap mod.

I think you're right, JC. I ran into a Kawasaki rep at the Manassas, Va. dealer right before I left. He told me that without the flies, the folks that determine such things feel the bike is a little too strong off the line, so the secondary flies are nothing more than airflow restrictions, hence, when removed, you have to re-map the fuel or ingnition, not sure which. I guess he's right, I dunno. He had an opinon, anyway. At 6K on up they open up to accommodate the V-TEC anyway, so the second or so it takes to get to 6K in 1st gear is all you need to run gear-to-gear at 6K plus rendering the flies irrelevant in any case. Shift at 9500 from any one gear and the next gear drops you right on 6400rpm. It would seem the truly power-hungry remove them as a matter of routine. V-Max peeps used to pull the butterflies out from between the carbs so the bike ran in V-Boost from idle, too.

For some peeps, it's never enough.

[conman711]

you can install an x-tre timing retard eliminator to take care of it-

http://www.healtech-electronics.com/

http://www.calsportbike.com/cgi-bin/...d=2010&count=1

[toocrazy2yoo]

you can install an x-tre timing retard eliminator to take care of it-

http://www.healtech-electronics.com/

http://www.calsportbike.com/cgi-bin/...d=2010&count=1

Dunno if it takes care of it. They're simply restricting air up to 6K RPM. Absent ya remove the flies, how's a timing-trick fix restricted air?

Not arguin', just asking.

[conman711]

Dunno if it takes care of it. They're simply restricting air up to 6K RPM. Absent ya remove the flies, how's a timing-trick fix restricted air?

Not arguin', just asking.

from another forum:

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-6r...tml#post186355

"It tricks our zx6r's into thinking they are in 6th gear all the time. That way even in first gear you are getting full ignition timing instead of (retarded ignition timing) and the secondary butterflies are full open.
don't confuse this with the jumper mod or power commander. they do totally different things."

http://www.zxforums.com/forums/zx-6r...tml#post186356

""Timing Retard Eliminator. Basically it hooks into the gear position circuit and tells the ECU you are in 6th gear all the time except when in neutral thus in 1st-3rd the sub throttles are open instead of closed and you get full spark advance. Yea ha. Haul ass.

One report from another forum I believe was 12,8,5 more HP in 1st,2nd,3rd gears. The Healtech co. claims 2 in 5th. Thats cheap HP for $130""

[keeena]

All the rage to pull these out of the Ninja12 and 14 and Concours14's throttle bodies apparently, but the dealer doesn't do it. Anyone here with the Ninja 12 or 14 that's done it? Is it really worth it, or just a warranty-risk?

I've done it before and seems to make a tiny bit of difference. I believe someone had maps for my bike w/ a before/after...I could see if i could find them.

I don't know specifically about the Kawi, but i'd suspect theres just an arm used to actuate. On other bikes some guys just disconnect the arm and then fix the flies open w/ a zip tie. A little easier and painless to revert.

I didn't know that flies were always wide open in 6th gear. I thought it depended on throttle position and engine speed only.

[toocrazy2yoo]

I've done it before and seems to make a tiny bit of difference. I believe someone had maps for my bike w/ a before/after...I could see if i could find them.

I don't know specifically about the Kawi, but i'd suspect theres just an arm used to actuate. On other bikes some guys just disconnect the arm and then fix the flies open w/ a zip tie. A little easier and painless to revert.

I didn't know that flies were always wide open in 6th gear. I thought it depended on throttle position and engine speed only.

Nah, it's ok, Keens. The flies are supposedly to restrict airflow through 6000 RPM, and then open thereafter based on throttle position, the criteria being whether it's WFO and kickin the VTEC into play. Other than out on the slab, I ain't ripped through the gears, but a dude on another venue once said at 6K all Hell breaks loose. Promise ya, through 6K on to redline, bangin through the gears, Hell is in session. But just that's my perspective. I dunno where a Councours14 stands against other bikes in the roll-on to top end department, but you're sure feeling it when it's time ta play. If there's one of these Sport-Tourers that's faster, I want one!