Soft brakes after bleed

[TheIglu]

Another option:

If i remember correctly, the SV you have has the same calipers as the Wee.

Want to see if it's in the calipers or in the rest of the system?

Swap them over.....

Cost: One bottle of fluid and time to bleed. If you clamp your lines down near the banjo as you swap them, bleeding should be short and easy.

[nhbubba]

Seems premature to rebuild calipers that are barely 3 years old. But maybe.

That's not a bad idea. Although I'm skittish about screwing with the SV. I live by the "if it ain't broke.." thing and, well, that thing really ain't broke.

Yes, I cleaned and lubed the slide pins.

[TheIglu]

Seems premature to rebuild calipers that are barely 3 years old.

Seems premature to have a braking system that is that bad at the lever, so something has gotta be wrong.

Swapping the calipers over from a known good will at least give you a constant in the equation.

[Paul_E_D]

Put new pads in first.

[nhbubba]

Seems premature to have a braking system that is that bad at the lever, so something has gotta be wrong.

As I've pointed out a couple times.. every V-Strom (ABS era anyway) I've fondled the lever on lately has had a bit of a soggy lever. (Even the new 1k! ) Some of the stromtrooper threads say swap in gixxah bits. (And be sure and buy your adapter plates from SVRacingWhatever, our fine sponsor.) Some say get used to it. Others act like they didn't know these machines came with brakes.

Maybe this is something against ABS. (Although I doubt it. The Tiger 800 I rented in Kali was ABS AND had very good brake feel.)
Maybe this is something against bargain basement Suzukis. Maybe that's why the Tiger 800 goes for $11k and the 'strom for $8k.
Maybe this is just the way it is.

You're right, swapping the calipers may tell me something. That's a great idea. I'm not feeling up to that though. Not interested in upsetting the very solid brakes I have on that machine over this right now.

I may throw some different fluid through it. Maybe I got a bad batch. Seems worth a try.
Maybe I will buy some new seals and break the calipers down next winter. That's another solid suggestion.

Put new pads in first.

Will do. Should have the pads in a few days.


Fer serious though. Does anyone that know any better than I think the reverse bleed trick is worth a try on my ABS machine? Worth a shot, or am I going to fubar the ABS pump thingiemaboo for sure?

[Rada]

In the end you could just have a bunk master cylinder. I threw 3 of them in the shitcan last year. 2 on the SV and one on the Gizzer. No amount of bleeding would fix either one. I know I probably could have put seal kits in them. But on my race steeds I want BRAKES. So new radial masters for both bikes in the end.. Now they both have fantastic brake power and feel.

I'm not a abs pro but I don't see what it would hurt to reverse bleed.

[Woodcraft]

It's worth checking the pads. Some brake pads I have tested I will literally bend in 5-6 laps. The backing plates warp and no longer sit flat when you take them out and set them back to back. ANY rocking at all will give you a soft lever, and no amount of bleeding will ever fix it.

It's not the definite answer, but before you go too extreme it's worth a quick check.

[TheIglu]

My non-ABS Wee has much better feel than yours as you know. My SV has the same master/calipers with only the different braided lines and it feels fantastic. So swapping out parts for different model isn't fixing the issue with the current system. It HAS to be able to be better than it is for you right now. They never woulda sold it off the showroom like that.

As I've pointed out a couple times.. every V-Strom (ABS era anyway) I've fondled the lever on lately has had a bit of a soggy lever. (Even the new 1k! ) Some of the stromtrooper threads say swap in gixxah bits. (And be sure and buy your adapter plates from SVRacingWhatever, our fine sponsor.) Some say get used to it. Others act like they didn't know these machines came with brakes.

Maybe this is something against ABS. (Although I doubt it. The Tiger 800 I rented in Kali was ABS AND had very good brake feel.)
Maybe this is something against bargain basement Suzukis. Maybe that's why the Tiger 800 goes for $11k and the 'strom for $8k.
Maybe this is just the way it is.

You're right, swapping the calipers may tell me something. That's a great idea. I'm not feeling up to that though. Not interested in upsetting the very solid brakes I have on that machine over this right now.

I may throw some different fluid through it. Maybe I got a bad batch. Seems worth a try.
Maybe I will buy some new seals and break the calipers down next winter. That's another solid suggestion.


Will do. Should have the pads in a few days.


Fer serious though. Does anyone that know any better than I think the reverse bleed trick is worth a try on my ABS machine? Worth a shot, or am I going to fubar the ABS pump thingiemaboo for sure?

[nhbubba]

New pads will likely do it. Cheap bastids have squishy brakes!

Put new pads in first.

So I'll be damned. The inganeer in me doesn't really understand why, but new pads helped a lot.

My theory is that the lever is still squishy, but the new pads are grabbier and more effective, so I just don't notice as much. At a stop the lever still feels mushy and meh. But underway it is much better and I feel like I can get a lot more stopping power to the wheel.

In related news, I am now of the opinion that Galfer HH pads kinda suck and EBC HH pads are way mo' bettah. (Yeah, yeah. They are no uber race pad. But for this street bike, they'll do.)

[The Snowman]

So I'll be damned. The inganeer in me doesn't really understand why, but new pads helped a lot.

Has to do with the position of the pistons relative to the fluid.

[nhbubba]

So the volume of fluid in the caliper cavity? Can't believe it is that substantial. Especially with the variation between new and spent pads on motorcycles. The pads start off so damned thin to begin with.

But .. whutever. I'll probably still try a reverse bleed eventually to see if I can get things even better.

[Paul_E_D]

Aah, a thrifty engineer. Now we are getting to the source of the problem! You're welcome, and after how many weeks has it dawned on you to listen to the voices of experience? Just because it *should* work, doesn't mean it does. No explanation needed. Racebikes are "engineered" by trial and error.

[nhbubba]

Pads weren't that bad. They still had some meat on them. Enough to pass state inspection.

Meh, whatever. Still prolly gonna try a reverse bleed and see what that does.

[xsiliconkid]

I've seen people recommend zip tying the brake lever overnight to let whatever bubbles are left rise to the reservoir.

Here we go......
Believe me or not...but pressurizing the system overnight by zip tying the lever does nothing positive. What it can do is deform o rings in the master cylinder -that makes the lever feel hard for a bit.
some say it compresses any air bubbles and the smaller air bubbles can return back up the line. The pressure applied has little impact on collapsing enought to go back up the line....air is usually trapped somewhere and flushing is the only way to remove.