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SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

  1. #1
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    It's time to replace the Bikemaster AGM battery in the SV. Been in it since I bought it years and years ago.

    Who here is running one of those fancy new lightweight batteries? Brands to go for/avoid? I've heard Shorai is one of the bigger names out there. $99 for their equivalent, but reviews are all over the place.


    I'm looking for longevity and reliability. Bike lives in a heated garage and the battery is on a tender all winter.

    Looks like original Yuasa YTX12 sealed lead acid is about $70, most AGM are around $40, LiIon is about $100.


    I have a ton of Battery Tender Jr's for all my various motorized toys, so needing another charger also is part of this equation while keeping in mind that if I go lightweight LiIon and like it, I'll eventually switch most of my batteries over to that style eventually.

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  2. #2
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    I love my shorais. I have no fancy tenders for them. They just work, and keep working. Kerry's SV and my KTM have the tiny one, my R6 has the big one. They are all the higher end versions.

    I actually never even put them on tenders.

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    Last edited by Paul_E_D; 05-16-19 at 07:48 AM.
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  3. #3
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Do you have the Shorai specific charger/maintainer/cell balancer they call for using once in a while?

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    Senior Member marshdrummer's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    I've had the same Shorai in my R1 for 4 seasons now. No charger/balancer thingy. Every season, it just fires right up. I WILL buy another one when this one dies.

    Also had one in my race SV for 2 seasons before getting rid of the bike. Never failed me.

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  5. #5
    Lifer
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Do the Shorai have built in battery monitoring circuitry?
    Supposedly some MC application batteries do not and I cannot understand why. I would think that would be a must-have feature.

    Supposedly one of the advantages of lithium is that you don't need to worry about shelf life. Just disconnect the battery for the off-season and leave it. No need for a tender.
    If your bike is relatively new and in good shape (ie your SV) then you may not even need to disconnect.

    Supposedly.

    I'm half in the market too. Same application; SV track toy.

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  6. #6
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    I’ve run the Shorai battery on track and street bikes. All of the track days I hit are late spring to end of October so no issues with temperature. The street bikes have lights so when it’s cold I turn on the head light for a minute or two to wake up the battery (all in unheated garage). It might start cranking slow but it’s always started. For a bike that’ll be run all winter and left out in the cold…maybe a bit different. That said I wouldn’t hesitate to run one.

    BTW, I’ve never needed a charger for the Shorai.

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  7. #7
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    EarthX has built in BMS and can be charged with standard chargers.

    Lightweight Lithium Motorcycle Batteries | EarthX, Inc.

    We also have two Battery Tender brand.

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  8. #8
    Lifer
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
    EarthX has built in BMS and can be charged with standard chargers.

    Lightweight Lithium Motorcycle Batteries | EarthX, Inc.
    ETX18F - $219.00

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  9. #9
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    I don't know what the shorai has in it, but I buy the higher amperage ones at around 150. They never need a tender.

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  10. #10
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    I've got a 7 year old Ballistic (no longer in business sadly) and a 3 or 4 year old Shorai. I have a balance charger for the Ballistic, and if I repin the cable it'll balance the Shorai as well. That said I've been using regular lead acid targeted Batt Tenders on them, just pulling them once they go to float mode with no issue. Once a year or so for giggles I'll toss the balance charger on, realize it's a waste and put it back in it's box.

    BMS on a bike battery, particularly one that's got a charging system is overkill in my opinion. The batt will self balance once topped off by the bike, and the low voltage cutoff still leaves you with a dead bike so... yay?

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  11. #11
    Lifer
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    It saves you from turning a $100 battery into a paperweight. No?

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  12. #12
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    It saves you from turning a $100 battery into a paperweight. No?
    I've yet to paperweight mine, drawn them down well below 'safe' values. If the BMS won't fire up 'cause the batt is below safe voltage, it's dead to you even if the cells were 'saved'. And if it cost you twice as much as the non BMS batt in the first place, did it save you anything if you DO have to replace it due to a whoopsie?

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  13. #13
    Lifer
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    I guess we've gone to answering questions with more questions.
    I legitimately don't know. Read some things suggesting a built in BMS was cheap, useful and worth holding out for. I gather you say otherwise.

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  14. #14
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    I just picked up a Shorai for a street ride.

    The owners manual states for long term storage to put it in your freezer. So i would assume it should be a-ok in our new england winters to leave it outside.


    It also says you can use any type of tender as long as it does not go into trickle mode, although they recommend their Shorai branded tender. They the Battery Tender brand has been tested to work with them according to the manual.

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  15. #15
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    I guess we've gone to answering questions with more questions.
    I legitimately don't know. Read some things suggesting a built in BMS was cheap, useful and worth holding out for. I gather you say otherwise.
    Yeah, on paper it makes perfect sense, ensures the batt is well balanced, prevents over voltage and over draw failures, etc. But then you look at the actual cost increase to include a real BMS vs what the competition is selling without, plus the failure rates of with vs without and... If you're the type that kills batteries monthly, it might buy you a little more lifespan, but for the majority it's an overpriced insurance policy?

    If you're going down that path, I'd also invest in a reg/rect that's been tuned for ideal voltage of LiPo vs lead acid if you really want to do it right.

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  16. #16
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    ETX18F - $219.00
    They’re $50 less retail and have a longer replacement warranty.

    There’s another technology being employed: AntiGravity’s “Re-Start.” AntiGravity was one of the first with an Li jump pack, and we’ve had one since they came out. The Li battery in our TW200 can sit for 4-6 months and start right up. 3D printed a box for it.


    ATX30 ReStart Battery intelligently monitors its status, and just before going completely dead puts itself in sleep mode with just enough energy to get your vehicle started again. Simply press the Re-Start button located on the battery, start your vehicle and ride off. No more dead battery emergencies or being stranded!
    Many Bikes with trip computers or other electronics have residual draw which wipes out Li batteries. This might be a way around that.

    Ordered an ATX30 to try in my WRX: delivered today. It’s (gulp) $400 - but that’s actually pretty cheap to shave 25-30 lbs out of the nose of a front-heavy car. If it doesn’t work it will go in the Triumph. AntiGravity makes a “real” car battery, but they are $800 and out of stock everywhere. Turbocharged cars have relatively low compression ratios so cranking isn’t that hard compared to a high performance NA engine. Not the first to do this so seems OK.

    Antigravity ATX-30 ReStart 880CA Lithium Ion Battery - RevZilla

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    Last edited by Garandman; 05-17-19 at 08:13 AM.

  17. #17
    Lifer NPDCPA's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Fancy batteries... I have $50 Walmart batteries in my track and street bikes. They work reliably for 5 years or so and at that point I replace them with another $50 Walmart battery so I avoid the "it won't start" morning surprise.

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  18. #18
    Lifer Garandman's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Quote Originally Posted by NPDCPA View Post
    Fancy batteries... I have $50 Walmart batteries in my track and street bikes. They work reliably for 5 years or so and at that point I replace them with another $50 Walmart battery so I avoid the "it won't start" morning surprise.
    I have to laugh at myself about buying a lightweight battery, when I could drop 20 lbs for free....

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  19. #19
    Lifer
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    My angle is a little like I suspect Iglu's is; if I'm buying a battery anyway, might as well upgrade.
    Not sure about it if the premium is 4x though.

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  20. #20
    Super Moderator OreoGaborio's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Shorai is the way to go if you want to spend 100 bucks or more...

    But Steve Heider swears by these iGel Chrome Pro batteries if you don't want to break the bank. I plan on going this route for my KTM and Aprilia (if I ever get it back on the road)

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=igel+batt...f=nb_sb_noss_1

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    Last edited by OreoGaborio; 05-17-19 at 11:51 AM.
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  21. #21
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Wow, those look like chinese shorai knockoffs. If they don't self immolate, I guess it's a bargain!

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  22. #22
    Super Moderator TheIglu's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoGaborio View Post
    Shorai is the way to go if you want to spend 100 bucks or more...

    But Steve Heider swears by these iGel Chrome Pro batteries if you don't want to break the bank. I plan on going this route for my KTM and Aprilia (if I ever get it back on the road)

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=igel+batt...f=nb_sb_noss_1
    Lol. Ordered one of those in an AGM style before I read your message.

    DAMNIT STEVE

    $38 shipped, fully charged. Can't complain with that.

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  23. #23
    Don't run with the pack. whynot's Avatar
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    Re: SV Replacement battery: LiPo/LiIon or another AGM?

    I've got Shorais in two of my kick start bikes, for sure they hold a charge -- for months -- but I do pull the main fuse when not in use.

    I've had good luck with AGM batteries from batterymart.com -- either "Big Crank" or their house brand.

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