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Wierdest electrical problem ever

  1. #1
    Senior Member smokinjoe's Avatar
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    Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Daily commuter bike 98 VTR1000 with a 2005 motor.

    So just when I thought I'd seen everything

    I get on the bike today and turn the key. When I hit the starter button it dies.

    Meaning, dash dead, no lights but clock still on. Then clock off when I hit starter again.

    Assume its a battery wire loose but cleaned them to no avail. Battery reads 12.8 volts. When I turn on the key the dash slowly lights up. The voltmeter I put on the dash reads 9v.

    When I hit the starter it makes a humming sound similar to a fuel pump priming(!). When I put a jump starter on it (box type not from car) it is more responsive but still only makes the whirring sound of a fuel pump but doesn't turn over.

    I have only seen this when a racebike had a petcock failure and the cylinders filled with fuel causing hydraulic lock. But that wouldn't explain why the dash is not getting voltage.

    Bike has been running fine and starting strong. I believe battery to be good as it is pretty new and is on a smart charger regularly. Main and ignition fuses seem fine.

    I want to push start it to see if its hyrdro lock but it got dark.

    If anyone has a clue about this let me know since it defies normal logic.

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  2. #2
    Lifer golden chicken's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    If you key on and the battery drops to 9V, your battery is smoked.

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  3. #3
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Quote Originally Posted by golden chicken View Post
    If you key on and the battery drops to 9V, your battery is smoked.
    This.

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  4. #4
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Yup, and with that smoked batt still in the circuit it's sucking down the voltage of your jump pack. Disconnect the batt, hook the jump pack up and see if it's better.

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  5. #5
    First name on the shit list.... SVRACER01's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    volts dont equal amps. amps turn the bike over

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  6. #6
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Quote Originally Posted by SVRACER01 View Post
    volts dont equal amps. amps turn the bike over
    Higher voltage = less current "amperage" to push. Lower voltage = higher current to push. A circuit is designed for a +, - voltage to much will do damage and to little will do the same. Be careful electronics can be sensitive with bad battery issues especially on older bikes.

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  7. #7
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Well, in this case the voltage drop is a symptom of a lack of capacity in the bad batt. The bike is asking for X amps and getting far less, hence the observed voltage sag with just the key on. That's what Oxx was getting at.

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  8. #8
    Senior Member smokinjoe's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Gonna try it with no batt jumper only.

    Looked this morning and battery was pretty dry. Added distilled and put on charge. Will report findings

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  9. #9
    Senior Member smokinjoe's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    So it gets weirder. I tried just the jumper and then jumped with a car battery I keep in the garage. Either one just made the solenoid click or buzz.

    Tried another solenoid. Same.

    Swapped out the starter motor. Same

    So bought a new battery and it will charge overnight on a good smart charger. I still have this weird idea about a hydraulic lock thing since I cant turn the thing over but it was running perfectly 2 days ago when I parked it.

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  10. #10
    Lifer golden chicken's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Can you manually crank the engine with a wrench/socket/ratchet?

    Also make sure main ground cable is tight and clean at both ends.

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    Last edited by golden chicken; 07-16-17 at 08:26 PM.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member MHenry600's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    I second, third?, the part about check to see if the motor turns over. A simple way is put the motor in a higher gear, and just push it over slowly.

    If it does, replace the battery and go from there.

    Long story short, I chased a non start issue on my shadow 1100 all spring. At the end of the day, it came down to a junk battery.

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  12. #12
    Senior Member smokinjoe's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Yeah I turned it with a socket. The motor isn't easy to turn but its the same as my good spare motor. I bought a new battery at painful retail price and ordered another on ebay for half that price.

    Tomorrow after battery is charged on the smart charger Ill pull the plugs and try to spin the motor.

    This is the first issue Ive had that I didn't guess the immediate fix in the first 5 minutes.

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  13. #13
    Backwoods lobster boy number9's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    If you're paranoid about it being hard to turn over by hand, pull the spark plugs and see if that makes it any easier. You won't be fighting the compression, then.

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  14. #14
    Lifer golden chicken's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Also, if you ride it daily, it doesn't need to be on a tender overnight. It really only kind of needs to be on a tender over winter storage. Sometimes I think people cook their batteries worrying too much about it.

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  15. #15
    Development Rider scottieducati's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Any quality battery maintainer (provided it's correct for the battery chemistry, e.g. no regular old battery tenders on a LiPo battery) will have safety cut outs to avoid overcharging.

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  16. #16
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    If you're paranoid about it being hard to turn over by hand, pull the spark plugs and see if that makes it any easier. You won't be fighting the compression, then.
    That will defeat the purpose. It definitely wont be hydro-locked with the plugs removed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm going with bad frame-engine ground.

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  17. #17
    Senior Member smokinjoe's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    So yeah I over baby my batteries but I live in NYC and its all sorta short jaunts that don't charge the battery. There is a happy medium of charging it like once a week. The fan goes pretty much every time I ride due to traffic and it being 125* ambient temp in the tunnel.

    I have a really good smart charger so this battery lasted longer than the last. It just cooked itself dry. I was not diligent on that cuz its very hard to remove my aux fuse block and pull the battery.

    Anyway, no shock but even though a car battery wouldn't turn the starter nor would a jump charger, a new charged ytx14bs battery put everything back to normal. Too bad I had to pay painful retail price.

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  18. #18
    Lifer Danz19899's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Voltage Drop test your ground system. I bet you your chassis ground is loose or corroded. Voltage drop test from a nice spot on your engine block to the negative post on your battery with the key on. Should be very low voltage difference shown. Anything over .5V you've got a bad ground.

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  19. #19
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Danz19899 View Post
    Voltage Drop test your ground system. I bet you your chassis ground is loose or corroded. Voltage drop test from a nice spot on your engine block to the negative post on your battery with the key on. Should be very low voltage difference shown. Anything over .5V you've got a bad ground.
    or just measure resistance from engine to battery -ve terminal and then frame to -ve battery terminal. anothing over 1 ohm and you have issues with grounds.

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  20. #20
    Senior Member MHenry600's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    Quote Originally Posted by Danz19899 View Post
    Voltage Drop test your ground system. I bet you your chassis ground is loose or corroded. Voltage drop test from a nice spot on your engine block to the negative post on your battery with the key on. Should be very low voltage difference shown. Anything over .5V you've got a bad ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by Degsy View Post
    or just measure resistance from engine to battery -ve terminal and then frame to -ve battery terminal. anothing over 1 ohm and you have issues with grounds.
    Or, I think his problem is already fixed....

    Quote Originally Posted by smokinjoe View Post
    ...even though a car battery wouldn't turn the starter nor would a jump charger, a new charged ytx14bs battery put everything back to normal. Too bad I had to pay painful retail price.
    That was a similar issue I had with the Shadow. I was trying to diagnose things, and even disconnected the starter from all bike wires to rule out any other potential issues. Hooked the battery straight to the starter and the motor barely moved. Hooked my truck battery straight to the starter and it barely moved. Figured the starter must be junk. Nope. Then figured something was getting hung up in the motor, but that didn't make sense to me.

    Ended up throwing in the new battery, and it fired right up. Go figure...

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  21. #21
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    If it wont start from a car battery directly attatched, either the new battery is masking things temporarily or the connections were crappy when he tried it.

    You cant change ohms law just because "bingo! New battery makes it work"

    Im willing to bet the grounds on that bike are crappy. And they will get worse, not better.





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  22. #22
    turning water into watts Woodsy's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    the regulator/rectifier is a known issue on that year. Try swapping that out. happened on mine and it would not start either

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  23. #23
    Lifer Stromper's Avatar
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    Re: Wierdest electrical problem ever

    When running 2000+ rpms check you have about 13.4 to 14 volts DC in system shows happy charging

    Batteries can appear to die instantly but really just when the crap shorts the plates
    You said it was dry that will do it but then what boiled it away unless it wasn't checked for years

    After years of fcking with walmart crap I in frustration got the biggest Yuasa and Yuasa keeper so far year 3 no troubles

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    Last edited by Stromper; 07-23-17 at 06:02 AM.
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