Winterizing!

[Kitt]

Hey guys, add to this with your traditions/rituals if you'd like... I didn't even search for old threads with similar topics (I know there has to be several on nesr), because I did this for a local auto enthusiast forum where there's fewer bikers with less experience... figured I'd cut and paste and read what you all do...

Hey guys, just a reminder to do this before it gets too cold and you guys are afraid to go out and work on the bike:

1. Fresh oil change - your clutch and motor share the same oil supply - unless your oil change is less than 500 miles old (and even then) you have measurable debris, and you do NOT want it to sit all winter. I recommend a 10W40 or thinner to sit in the motor all winter, and a new filter.

2. Coolant - most street bikes should be ok from factory, but if you've added any water, or if you like to be safe "sweeten" up your coolant to avoid any freezing in the block, water pump, radiator, or overflow. If you add coolant (please don't ask if you can use automotive coolant) - be sure to let the bike run until it comes up to temp before turning it off for the winter.

3. Dry gas - It's a good idea to use a couple capfuls of (automotive) dry gas in your bikes tank - I'd recommend a full tank and one capful per gallon of dry gas. If you have a plastic tank, this is less necessary but still helpful. Carb'd bikes - TURN YOUR FUEL OFF. All bikes - whether you use dry gas or not, don't expect to go street racing on this tank of gas in the spring - it's diluted enough to effect combustion. In my race bike I'd siphon it out, on a street bike I use it up in my springtime shake-down run. DO NOT leave your tank dry, this can lead to dry rotting and cracking of o-rings in the fuel system. If you have access to Viscor or another fuel substitution that is less harmful to rubber and silicon, use this, and drain tank completely in the spring (I'm lucky this year - getting some for free!).

4. Battery - Many bikes have serviceable batteries, but serviceable or maintenance free, get a battery tender, or similar device (Wal-Mart sells a budget one for $14.99 that works great) and leave this on trickle charge (low current 1-2 amp) for a couple days each month. It is important that if you are using a kickstand on the bike (side or center) that you separate the kickstand from your cement floor with a rubber mat. The moisture in the cement will act as a ground and drain and/or ruin the battery. If you are using metal bike stands without rubber pads, you will have this problem on the front side, and if you have metal spools, on the rear too. (yes, aluminum DOES work as a conductor). I recommend removing your battery and storing it indoors in a warm, non-grounded location, only needing a trickle charge (and maybe a top-off of distilled water for serviceable batteries) in the spring.

5. Tires - Over inflate tires 5-10psi over sidewall recommendation (when that cold air hits, this will drop... This is a good Idea even in a heated garage if you plan on leaving the bike on it's wheels all winter) I recommend getting the bike up on stands - if you don’t have bike stands or want to spend the money, you can use 2x4s and automotive jack stands ($19.99 a pair many places). If the bike is off the ground, over inflation is not necessary.


Those are the basics... It's always a good idea to get the bike started up every month (when you charge the battery) or so, in order to reposition the pistons in the sleeves - I like to be cautious.

[Sheppo]

nice post.

[Kurlon]

My only comment is I don't agree with starting the bike monthly, unless you can let it run for 20 mins to drive out any accumlated moisture in the crankcases and oil.

Also note, gas with ethanol in it breaks down MUCH faster, and breaks down to water, so you'll want to use a gas stabilizer formulated for ethanolated gas.

[Kitt]

My only comment is I don't agree with starting the bike monthly, unless you can let it run for 20 mins to drive out any accumlated moisture in the crankcases and oil.

Also note, gas with ethanol in it breaks down MUCH faster, and breaks down to water, so you'll want to use a gas stabilizer formulated for ethanolated gas.

good note on ethanol, although I haven't experienced any significant changes in a 3-5 month period - as for not starting.. you don't mind your piston set on the sleeve for 4 months?

[kamikaze]

Thanks Kit. Its very detailed. I am wondering about the Kick stand acting as a drain. I think if it is infact acting as a drain means there is grounding in the system which not might be good anyways.

[Kitt]

Thanks Kit. Its very detailed. I am wondering about the Kick stand acting as a drain. I think if it is infact acting as a drain means there is grounding in the system which not might be good anyways.

never good... always the case.

[Kurlon]

good note on ethanol, although I haven't experienced any significant changes in a 3-5 month period - as for not starting.. you don't mind your piston set on the sleeve for 4 months?

Never had a machine where I could see evidence that letting the piston sit there in one spot for a year or two had any impact. That is counting machines that were stored properly of course, fresh oil, stabil, etc. Worst case, if I was really concerned, I'd leave the stator cover off so I could periodically give the crank a quarter turn by hand rather than starting it up, and re-contaminating the oil with blow by, introducing new moisture into the system, etc. I just can't see modern ring and cylinder lining tech being so poor as to have that pose a problem any more.

I actually have a case study example of this I can check out. Lifan 120 motor built in 2004, it's sitting on my shelf, never been fired. Never even been turned over after the factory test. I'll take pics if I ever pop the top end off to see if the piston or cylinder show signs of where it sat.

[FTMS]

The main problem that I have seen with the ethanol sitting in the cargs is that it is breaking down the rubber parts of the carbs. The nice cheap ($100 a piece) carb slides seem to take it hard. I have replace a couple lately on 4-wheelers that have sat most of the summer because they only use them for hunting. Either drain your carbs or shut your fuel off and run your carbs dry.

[Kitt]

Never had a machine where I could see evidence that letting the piston sit there in one spot for a year or two had any impact. That is counting machines that were stored properly of course, fresh oil, stabil, etc. Worst case, if I was really concerned, I'd leave the stator cover off so I could periodically give the crank a quarter turn by hand rather than starting it up, and re-contaminating the oil with blow by, introducing new moisture into the system, etc. I just can't see modern ring and cylinder lining tech being so poor as to have that pose a problem any more.

I actually have a case study example of this I can check out. Lifan 120 motor built in 2004, it's sitting on my shelf, never been fired. Never even been turned over after the factory test. I'll take pics if I ever pop the top end off to see if the piston or cylinder show signs of where it sat.

do it up! i'd be interested in that test... i'm not promising my method isn't due to my paranoia, but I do believe you have moisture in the pistons anyway, and if it's experiencing temperature fluctuations that moisture can condensate - I always play it safe... but interested more on why you think starting it up is going to cause additional problems?

[Kitt]

Either drain your carbs or shut your fuel off and run your carbs dry.

good addition.

[RandyO]

if your not going to ride, it don't start it, it doesn't do it any bit of good

batteries draining thru the kick stand to a concrete floor

[Kurlon]

do it up! i'd be interested in that test... i'm not promising my method isn't due to my paranoia, but I do believe you have moisture in the pistons anyway, and if it's experiencing temperature fluctuations that moisture can condensate - I always play it safe... but interested more on why you think starting it up is going to cause additional problems?

When you first fire the motor up, you've got extra blowby compared to normal. Add a rich mixture (cold) and less than ideal combustion (cold) and you'll be flinging a lot of acid formers plus moisture down into the cases. It takes both heat and time to burn off that moisture, much longer than it takes to have the coolant temp gauge read 'hot'. Ideally with fresh oil you've got lots of buffers ready to combat the acid formers, but why generate them in the first place? Unless you have the misfortune of your motor stopping with a valve open, it's essentially 'sealed up' when you put it away. So whatever moisture is in there (you're putting it away toasty, yes?) is all that will be there. The one path moisture will have to get in at that point is via crankcase breathers, but you've got a one way valve on that, right? : )

At least, thats the logic I use. I'll see if I can make some time to crack open that Lifan and get some pics of the cylinder and piston.

[jc r6]

I also never start my bike when it's stored for the winter.

I shouldn't be started unless it can be brought up to normal operating temp IMO

[Kitt]

batteries draining thru the kick stand to a concrete floor

wow... u don't buy that? hahaha... good call

[Kitt]

When you first fire the motor up, you've got extra blowby compared to normal. Add a rich mixture (cold) and less than ideal combustion (cold) and you'll be flinging a lot of acid formers plus moisture down into the cases. It takes both heat and time to burn off that moisture, much longer than it takes to have the coolant temp gauge read 'hot'. Ideally with fresh oil you've got lots of buffers ready to combat the acid formers, but why generate them in the first place? Unless you have the misfortune of your motor stopping with a valve open, it's essentially 'sealed up' when you put it away. So whatever moisture is in there (you're putting it away toasty, yes?) is all that will be there. The one path moisture will have to get in at that point is via crankcase breathers, but you've got a one way valve on that, right? : )

At least, thats the logic I use. I'll see if I can make some time to crack open that Lifan and get some pics of the cylinder and piston.

I'll buy this... Good explanation (I work in fuel pump design for autos - and we've virtually eliminated this problem)but no matter the condition of your lifan, I'm never going to buy it's goof to let it sit for prolonged time like this.

[Kitt]

I also never start my bike when it's stored for the winter.

I shouldn't be started unless it can be brought up to normal operating temp IMO

maybe I should have specified letting it get warm, but yea... kurlon just had a great explanation of why that still isn't long enough.

[greenmonster]

The point about carb'd bikes...either draining the carbs right off, or shutting off the fuel and then running them dry...doesnt having empty carbs cause any damage to rubber seals, O-rings, etc. by letting them dry out/rot? Isnt it better to just sta-bil the gas and then shut off the fuel, leaving the carbs "wet"?

As for starting and running it up to temp to rid the moisture, run til the fan kicks in, you're at peak temp, I'd guess.

[jc r6]

maybe I should have specified letting it get warm, but yea... kurlon just had a great explanation of why that still isn't long enough.

Yeah i won't start it unless i'm going to be able to ride it for a bit for that very reason.

Good post though...a lot of people don't know what to do with their bikes when winter comes.

I just winterized mine and put it up on stands last weekend .....i feel lost

[FTMS]

Another thing to consider with starting a bike every so often is you keep introducing new fuel in the carbs that has a chance to evaporate and leave more residue behind. Fuel injected bikes not a really affected by this.

[tonup]

The point about carb'd bikes...either draning the carbs right off, or shutting off the fuel and then running them dry...doesnt having empty carbs cause any damage to rubber seals, O-rings, etc. by letting them dry out/rot? Isnt it better to just sta-bil the gas and then shut off the fuel, leaving the carbs "wet"?

As for starting and running it up to temp to rid the moisture, run til the fan kicks in, you're at peak temp, I'd guess.

From my personal experiences, you can run the carb dry from running it but the bowl still has fuel int it which will deteriorate and become the future headache. Unless you take the bowl apart or have a specific drain, keep it full. No moisure will accumulate. As for the fear of a cylinder seizing from storage-------. Have an old 70 triumph 500 I haven't started in almost 12 years. 2 saturdays ago with help from the captain when the wife was gone visiting family that bitch (the 500) came back to life with just a few kicks once I remembered the steps. Several months of storage won't kill or hurt most things these days. And I'll keep a battery on a concrete floor any day. Have been told by 2 different electrical engineers that it WILL NOT drain a battery. Ole wives tale. Each to their own. Everyone should wrench on their own bikes.

[CEO]

Also note, gas with ethanol in it breaks down MUCH faster, and breaks down to water, so you'll want to use a gas stabilizer formulated for ethanolated gas.

Yup. The marine stabil is the stuff you want to use with the newer gas.

It's blueish in color instead of red.

[Kitt]

And I'll keep a battery on a concrete floor any day.

motor seizure? didn't meantion that... scoring of the cylinder walls, yes. But as I updated before, that is probably a bit paranoid for a 4-6 mo. off season.

as for battery, I'll let you believe your EE's... I am an ME, and know engineers of every discipline that don't know $#!T about maintaining a vehicle hahaha... think about it... moisture in the floor... connection with the frame, which is ground of the bike. ask your ee's what happens if you ground a battery to earth over the course of 3 months.

[RandyO]

another reason to avoid starting you bike if your not going to ride is your battery & charging system, in cold weather it zaps a lot out of a tiny battery to turn over your high compression, engine to start

unless you got a bmw with an optional 50amp alternator, your charging system is relatively weak, at idle, justr putting out enuf to run the bike, you have to get the engine up to road speeds to get enuf juice to begin to recharge your battery, and even then, not at a fast rate.

the charging system in most bikes is minimal, enuf to run the bike and maintain the battery, not recharge it from dead, and if your running accessories, gps, radar, grips, jacket liner, aux lights, every watt you use reduces the amount your putting back into the battery

I ride all winter, and keep my bike plugged into a battery tender as soon as it's parked

[tonup]

motor seizure? didn't meantion that... scoring of the cylinder walls, yes. But as I updated before, that is probably a bit paranoid for a 4-6 mo. off season.

as for battery, I'll let you believe your EE's... I am an ME, and know engineers of every discipline that don't know $#!T about maintaining a vehicle hahaha... think about it... moisture in the floor... connection with the frame, which is ground of the bike. ask your ee's what happens if you ground a battery to earth over the course of 3 months.

I have to apologize and clarify, to an ME . Relax, just jokn'.You may be correct when it comes to a bikes battery. My conversation about the batteries with both engineers was while discussing cars. And when directly asked about setting a battery directly on the floor sucking the life out of it, I got the same "not true" answer from both (not at same meeting). Just casual "shootin the shit" conversation from many years ago mind you. I personally put the battries of all my "not used" stuff in the basement and rotate the tending. Haven't had any problems yet. And my background as an ASE mechanic and now carpenter means jack shit so I'll accept whatever bashing I may get.

[greenmonster]

Yup. The marine stabil is the stuff you want to use with the newer gas.

It's blueish in color instead of red.

Never heard of the marine version. What properties does it have that makes it a better choice than the red?