Yo, engine rebuild or what?

[akira700]

Its been a while since I have posted last, Hi yall!
My latest predicament forces me to tap into some of the fine brain power here to guide me.

I have '05 600RR. Its had electrical trouble in the past, bad grounding etc.
Well I seem to have gotten that fixed, but this winter I wheeled it out
to take run on a warm day we had, and it wouldn't start. The starter would crank but no
ignition. First thought the battery was too low so swapped it for another I have on
trickle charge. Same deal. Then I thought its the dreaded corroded ground issue again....

Long story short I took it over the Parkway as I just didn't have the time
to figure this one out. Turns out that the engine is lacking compression in all cylinders
and perhaps that is why it won't start. Well its not the valve adjustment that's causing the
compression loss. According Chris at Parkway Cycles its looking at full top end rebuild.

What should I do? Should I get it fixed? Install a new used engine? Sell it for parts and
start over with some thing else?

Can I get a reliable used 600RR engine for less than they want to charge me
for the work? Should I ditch it and get something else?

HELP!

-Akira

[butcher bergs]

Unless you ran the thing without oil, this would be the first time in history that a Honda lost compression in all of its cylinders at one time.

I'm calling bullshit on their diagnosis or the compression and leakdown were not performed correctly.

Get your money back or tell them to find the real issue.

[nhbubba]

'Bullshit' was exactly what I was thinking.

I'd start with a 2nd opinion.

[JettaJayGLS]

Unless you ran the thing without oil, this would be the first time in history that a Honda lost compression in all of its cylinders at one time.

I'm calling bullshit on their diagnosis or the compression and leakdown were not performed correctly.

Get your money back or tell them to find the real issue.

This.

Parkway probably took you for a sucker and thought they could put you through the ringer. Don't let them. In all honestly, they probably can't figure out the problem, but assume a new engine will fix it. If you are seriously stumped, drop the bike off with one of the shops on this board for a more honest opinion.

The idea of a cbr600 losing compression on all cylinders, without anything catastrophic occuring seems highly unlikely.

[Jim]

if the rare event that they are right, i'd swap the motor out with a street motor with low miles.

[stoinkythepig]

Well its not the valve adjustment that's causing the
compression loss.

-Akira

I'm curious why you wrote this because an improperly done valve adjustment could cause exactly the symptoms you describe, including the lack of compression on all cylinders.

[Falko]

I would start by asking them if they actually turned the engine over during the compression test. Something is not proper with this scenario.

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted

Did they tell you compression numbers across the head?

You had hydrolocking at Monticello a couple of years back. That could very well have damages the head or gasket or a valve, rings etc.

How many miles on the motor?

[akira700]

Over 20k on the motor... but it was running totally fine about 3 weeks before when
I rode it into my shed.

I was thinking that the hydrolocking did some damage but it
was running pretty good after that. I've done several track days after that event.
I would have noticed big time compression loss, it was tight. It didn't even smoke when I rode last.
Yeah so something is not coming up right. Well I did over heat it during the summer when for some
reason my fan motor stopped in bumper to bumper traffic. I pulled over pretty quick and it stalled
battery totally dead. I popped in a second battery and it ran fine after that.

Are there some sensors that control the valves and engine function that could be malfunctioning
from this electrical issue?
A day before I took it in, I found a burned wire on the gang ground
(remember that yellow cluster near the seat on the left side, Degs?) but I soldered that down and thought it was
solved. That at least allowed it the starter to run, but no ignition.

Anyway something was electrically was amiss to cause that burn. And that is not solved by my soldering job.
Maybe its all related and its still an electrical issue? Or the electrical issue caused the engine to run improperly and the
cams are broken? Parkway yes might be just pulling this engine issue as a red herring... don't know. But why? they could have made money just messing with my electrical issue and then bail, they still make money right? So I see no motive for them to just make this up.

[akira700]

I'm curious why you wrote this because an improperly done valve adjustment could cause exactly the symptoms you describe, including the lack of compression on all cylinders.

Well that's what they said on the phone. not sure the exact wording but he said that it wasn't just an issue of valve adjustment. Not sure how you rule that out but he said valves were sealing fine. But if there in low compression and the valve are sealing ok then its rings right? but then it would smoke right? its not adding up. or head gasket? but that too would show obvious signs...

[scubasteveRR]

just to give you an idea on cost of a used motor, I know Hondarider has replaced his twice and got both engines for @ $300 shipped or something like that.

and you can replace the engine yourself with a little help i've seen it and helped do it a few time already

[hondarider102]

Wirelessly posted

just to give you an idea on cost of a used motor, I know Hondarider has replaced his twice and got both engines for @ $300 shipped or something like that.

and you can replace the engine yourself with a little help i've seen it and helped do it a few time already

I only replaced the motor once, $350 shipped off eBay, had 4500 miles and ran good. 15k miles later and I need another new one or a rebuild lol

[Jim]

Expect to typically pay around $500 for a motor

[hondarider102]

Most 600rr motors go between 700-1200 on ebay, Dont forget there not as common as GSXR motors. I just happened to find a good deal.

Expect to typically pay around $500 for a motor

[butcher bergs]

I'm curious why you wrote this because an improperly done valve adjustment could cause exactly the symptoms you describe, including the lack of compression on all cylinders.

How so? The valves are going to close no matter what and if timing is that far off there are going to be bent valves.

The only way I can see a valve adjustment causing the valves to hang open would be a result of the installer using shims that would cause the buckets to ride the entire lob of the cam and if that's the case, holy shit (!!) they should not be in business

[Cerberus]

I used to see otherwise perfectly runable engine present with practically zero compression all the time..
light weight low tension rings are a great idea in concept but if the cylinder gets washed down..
i would drop a teaspoon of oil down each sparkplug hole and start it.

warm it up and recheck compression. it will be fine.


edit: the afore mentioned engines with symptoms I described were late model Jaguar V8 engines. but that is irrelevant to the fact that the engines were fine. they just lost ring seal for no good reason. add oil and crank, and they were fine.

[CBR929RE]

Wirelessly posted



I only replaced the motor once, $350 shipped off eBay, had 4500 miles and ran good. 15k miles later and I need another new one or a rebuild lol

if you're replacing a Honda motor a second time you are doing something wrong. really all the major brands have pretty reliable motors if maintained properly.

[hondarider102]

if you're replacing a Honda motor a second time you are doing something wrong. really all the major brands have pretty reliable motors if maintained properly.

I beat the ever living shit out of my motor. 25-30k miles at 10-15k rpms, Clutched wheelies etc.... will take a tole on a motor. My old motor hadn't blown yet but on the dyno rob said it was a grenade waiting to go off. Once i had a replacement motor i took it apart, the cylinder walls were severely scored and the valves were all very very dirty. I'm sure with new rings, honing and coating, con rod bearings, valves and a head job the motor would have been good for another 30k miles but all those parts would cost alot more then the 350 i spent on a whole motor which ran perfect.

[CBR929RE]

change your air filter and oil/filter more often and check valves on schedule.

[hondarider102]

valve check was done at 18k which is 2k after the recommended schedule and they were not far off at all, with in spec technically but i like to have them right in the middle of spec. Air filter gets cleaned every 5k or so miles and is never really that dirty and i run Amsoil and change it between 3-5k miles which is well before amsoil is worn out. Its just like a track bike or race bike, motor gets tired after so many miles.

change your air filter and oil/filter more often and check valves on schedule.

[stoinkythepig]

How so? The valves are going to close no matter what and if timing is that far off there are going to be bent valves.

The only way I can see a valve adjustment causing the valves to hang open would be a result of the installer using shims that would cause the buckets to ride the entire lob of the cam and if that's the case, holy shit (!!) they should not be in business

I have no idea who did the last valve adjustment, so I had to ask, especially since valve adjustments and "lack of compression" were mentioned in the same paragraph.

[akira700]

Degs is the man.

Getting me a new used engine with a warranty... and installing it for a fraction of the price that
the shop was asking for a top end rebuild. My engine is pretty much toast.

[TheIglu]

What specifically was wrong with your engine?

And be a good sport and give Deg's your old junk engine if he wants it. He'll probably be able to make it good again after some time, $$ and effort so the next guy down the line gets a helping hand like you did.

[scubasteveRR]

Degs is the man!

If you need an extra set of hands and some help let me know. I've seen Deg's do this and done this a couple times now.

Degs is the man.

Getting me a new used engine with a warranty... and installing it for a fraction of the price that
the shop was asking for a top end rebuild. My engine is pretty much toast.