#121 Round 4

[BrianC]

Sorry Supertuner if you took what I said the wrong way... I'm not calling Shane out for anything, but I do think that there is a difference in the way the older guys pass. Maybe "mature" was the wrong word, but I thought it was fun and I'm not making a big deal about it. I appreciate the support from everyone else... it was a letdown of a weekend, but not that bad. I think I had some mental things going on, and was trying too hard... I was still very consistent in the 24/25 range which is slow, but I am starting to realize why now that I have time to reflect. As far as moving up to am goes... it wont' take me long to better my times... it might seem like I made the bump prematurely, but I just did what the rulebook says. Safety is not an issue... I consider myself a safe rider and I hope my track record thus far supports that. I haven't had one complaint from anyone who I've raced with.

Thanks again for the support to everyone else... it really does mean alot to me!

[Kurlon]

I consider myself a safe rider and I hope my track record thus far supports that.

If Shane didn't agree, he wouldn't have trusted you to allow that pass, that's all the confirmation you need right there.

[lrrs313]

If Shane didn't agree, he wouldn't have trusted you to allow that pass, that's all the confirmation you need right there.

+1 One of the first things I noticed when I moved up to yellow plates was how much closer the experts would get when making their way past me. I took it as a compliment and a sign of respect. Kinda their way of saying, we trust you and your skills enough to put ourselves and our race bikes this close, welcome to the fast guys club.

By the way, you were looking good out there Sunday, it was a tough weekend weather-wise. Keep it up, the times will come probably quicker than you think.

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Sorry Supertuner if you took what I said the wrong way... I'm not calling Shane out for anything, but I do think that there is a difference in the way the older guys pass. Maybe "mature" was the wrong word, but I thought it was fun and I'm not making a big deal about it. I appreciate the support from everyone else... it was a letdown of a weekend, but not that bad. I think I had some mental things going on, and was trying too hard... I was still very consistent in the 24/25 range which is slow, but I am starting to realize why now that I have time to reflect. As far as moving up to am goes... it wont' take me long to better my times... it might seem like I made the bump prematurely, but I just did what the rulebook says. Safety is not an issue... I consider myself a safe rider and I hope my track record thus far supports that. I haven't had one complaint from anyone who I've raced with.

Thanks again for the support to everyone else... it really does mean alot to me!

Well said

[RyanNicholson]

My advise to you is, not to let your times bother you ( 1st weekend as Am. - different front tire - maybe a bit nervous - super hot - Ect. ) Your doing well.

My 2 cents on close passes by super fast experts :
#1 there is a bit of an expectation that if you have your yellow plates, you know the line / and will STAY on the line!
#2 A MUCH faster rider in a RACE wants/needs to get by you as quick AND safely as possible..he does NOT want to get hurt or hurt anyone else.
#3 Any top 5 Expert knows what he is doing and knows exactly where HE is and where YOU are when making a pass, he needs to get by you AND back on line ASAP, he will not put himself or you in danger intentionaly.
#4 Welcome to being on track with super fast guys

Keep learning - your doing just fine.

This.

As far as your times... almost everyone is slow their first weekend after bumping up either to AM or especially EX. Its a lot of pressure, new guys on the grid with you, not sure what to expect, etc.

As far as dealing with being lapped by the experts, like Freddy said they're battling at the front of the most intense races at the track and need to make split second decisions on where they need to go, and where you're going to be to get around you as safely and quickly as possible. Sometimes its a little closer than they may have liked, usually they'll be 3 bike lengths in front of you before you even realize they passed you.

Keep in mind that almost anyone towards the front of the expert pack are the most experienced and skilled riders up there, they know what they're doing. Having raced with those guys for a few years, I'd trust any of them to pass me as close as they want. I'm willing to bet the contrast between NV passes and an EX going around you (in any way, close or not) may have been a bit of an eye opener. I know it was for me when I started.

Like someone said before, take it as a compliment that they're willing to pass you as close as they did. Just take it easy next race weekend, now that you know what to expect you'll be able to relax and those lap times will drop naturally. Welcome to being on track with the fastest guys in the North East.

[lrrs313]

Welcome to being on track with the fastest guys in the North East.

And the country. Eric, Shane, Scott G, and several others are AMA Pro licensed guys; you're racing with some seriously skilled people. Even being within 12-13 sec/lap of them (at a track where they have logged literally THOUSANDS of laps) in 4 race weekends is and accomplishment.

[The Snowman]

As the others have mentioned, don't worry about the times. Everyone has a weekend where they're a little "off" their normal pace. Ask me how I know. Shake it off, come to round 5 fresh and not even thinking about it. You'll be back on your game.

As for being lapped by experts, it's staggering to see how fast they blow by you. I have been passed by 4 different riders so far. 3 have been really great about the distance they keep from you. Mainly, I believe, because they don't have any idea what you're going to do. I have also been hit twice now by the same rider and both times in T12, a tight area. I didn't go down, but possibly cost him a placement. Since both happened so fast, I don't have a clue what happened.

However, huge kudos to Scott Mullin. He came over to me and told me that I was doing nothing wrong, they just came in super hot and he managed to get around me in T11 before it tightened up. The other rider unfortunately, didn't. It happens and definitely not intentionally.

[union]

As the others have mentioned, don't worry about the times. Everyone has a weekend where they're a little "off" their normal pace. Ask me how I know. Shake it off, come to round 5 fresh and not even thinking about it. You'll be back on your game.

As for being lapped by experts, it's staggering to see how fast they blow by you. I have been passed by 4 different riders so far. 3 have been really great about the distance they keep from you. Mainly, I believe, because they don't have any idea what you're going to do. I have also been hit twice now by the same rider and both times in T12, a tight area. I didn't go down, but possibly cost him a placement. Since both happened so fast, I don't have a clue what happened.

However, huge kudos to Scott Mullin. He came over to me and told me that I was doing nothing wrong, they just came in super hot and he managed to get around me in T11 before it tightened up. The other rider unfortunately, didn't. It happens and definitely not intentionally.

That pretty much sums it up. At slower lap times you have more options on where to go. If you have to make an adjustment its much easier. It makes slower riders unpredictable because they can be. When you start going faster youll see that the options available to you to make that random adjustment to your line doesnt exist anymore. You make your decision earlier and youre stuck with it.

I doubt that Shane or anyone else that are at the front of the expert field are intentionally trying to make close passes that makes the other person uncomfortable. They have just made their decision much further back and when they got to where the pass happened they had to deal with it.

Chuck T 11 and 12 are certainly tight areas. Ive been both the passer and the passee there. We dont always make the best choice Ive actually jumped the big hump before we tip into 11 before. I guess its all part of learning.

[Degsy]

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So. Blue flags? Good or bad at loudon. I say BAD idea. Track is too tight.

[union]

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So. Blue flags? Good or bad at loudon. I say BAD idea. Track is too tight.

Ya Im with a bad idea. Not enough area to do anything when you see it.

[brady]

Blue flags would probably make me and a bunch of other newbies do something we shouldn't, instead of hold our line and focus ahead.

[lrrs313]

Ya Im with a bad idea. Not enough area to do anything when you see it.

Agree. Unfortunately, there are some spots where the track is very one-line, especially when the top experts are at race pace (and especially when there are 2, 3, and even 4 guys who are capable of winning any given race). There have been other threads where people complain about getting bumped by fast experts (including J Wood), and the bottom line is this -- they make a decision about where you're going, and are usually close to (or, in some cases, just past) the traction limit/handling limit of the bike and tires. If something changes a line, brake marker, ANYTHING, even a few INCHES from what the split-second prediction is, they are not in a position to tighten their line or brake more (without crashing).

In the instance that Brian mentioned, I'm GUESSING (I could be waaaaaay off) that he trailed off the brakes sooner than Shane predicted and therefore carried a little more midcorner speed, thus making the pass closer than intended.

EDIT: I've been passed by a lot of fast guys; I've been bumped/leaned on once (drifted wider than Donovan thought I would, he tapped my outside leg, got an apology wave as he went by), and nearly had my front wheel taken off going into 9 (I was taking a funky line, tried to straighten T8 too much, a couple of the top 3 MW PTwins guys were battling and one got a little close for my comfort, but again I was not taking a conventional line, and that's kind of a tight spot on the track). Both times the passers were pushing hard (battling for podium spots) and I was slightly off the fastest line.

[Mr. Kurtz]

Ups and downs man, don't sweat it. Seems like you're doing pretty damn well for 4 weekends in.