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LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

  1. #1
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    I'll focus on the key points.

    Got to the track on Tuesday for the 2 day advanced school with Eric. Learned SO MUCH in those two days, even while struggling to learn GP shift. I blip my downshifts, and for some reason I found it incredibly difficult to maintain constant pressure on the brake lever during my blips while also thinking about getting my foot under the shifter. I was especially inconsistent into 3, where I had to move my braking point a bit earlier to offset the unsteady brake lever pressure problem. Some laps I would nail it and essentially overbrake before my tip-in point, some laps I would almost completely release the brake lever while shifting/blipping and end up trail braking harder than usual to make the corner. It just wasn’t feeling good at all.

    At some point during all the advanced school fun, I came back to the garage and found a mangled #405 bike on its stands. Huh, I don’t remember it looking that ugly. Colin then rolled up and said that Jason had gone down hard in 11. We rolled over to the medical center to find Jason, but he was still in the ambulance and apparently going straight to Concord. They exchanged a few words while Colin handed off his cell phone, so I knew he was at least awake, but that was all the info I had for a while. Scary.

    Fast forward to Friday race 2. I was already loaded up on Ibuprofen in anticipation of the hip joint destruction that is GTL. I had an OK start, then spent the rest of the race chasing Roland #240. I would take 6-10 great and make up some ground, but then lose it all in 11 and 3 each lap. I felt like I was riding terribly, still struggling with GP shift, and was only holding my normal pace because of the tow from Roland. At some point (lap 17, evidently), I came into T3, tipped in, and BANG. I don’t remember this clearly, but I think my rear wheel was pushed sideways for a brief moment, then the tire hooked up again, then the bike flipped and sent me for a nice aerial view of T3. I was in the air just long enough to think “oh shit, this is a highside”. I came down hard on my hip and shoulder, took a good wack to the head and got the wind knocked out of me. Came to a stop, wiggled my toes, wiggled my fingers, got up onto my hands and knees, and realized I was right in the crash zone of 3. I crawled behind the tire wall on all fours, then pulled myself up for a look and realized I had collided with another rider, Seth Hahn #91. The paramedics ran over, asked me my name, where I was, etc. I’m good, seriously, go help him (on the ground still, not moving).

    I am still not sure what happened exactly, but I suspect that I turned in either unusually early or late due to my problem described above, right as Seth was lining up the pass. He has probably made that pass 1,000 times before, and I have no doubt he would have nailed it if I was riding properly. My biggest goal for the year has been to ride safe in races where I share the track with lots of more experienced riders, and I feel terrible for letting Seth down in such a big way. I went over to his garage to try to get his contact info later in the day, but none of the folks hanging around there had his number. They told me to try Facebook, but I wasn’t able to find him on there either. On Sunday, I heard that he broke a bunch of ribs and got a concussion, which obviously sucks. If anyone is in contact with him, please let him know that I am thinking about him and wishing him a fast recovery.

    That effectively ended my weekend. I was planning to do 2 races on Sunday, but my exhaust was bent around my rear wheel, triples appeared to be twisted, left side controls were destroyed, frame slider bent in half, windscreen gone, I felt like I got hit by a bus, etc, so I sat them out. I honestly do not understand how I am OK after the crash. I feel like someone grabbed me around the neck and shook me, and the side I came down on is pretty sore, but no major problems that I can tell.

    Thanks to the corner workers and paramedics, as well as the other riders for being careful before the red flag came out. I wish Seth a speedy recovery (and Jason too). Also thanks to Eric Wood for a great advanced school.

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  2. #2
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Ah, Bummer Pete. Glad you OK. Hope Seth will be too.

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  3. #3
    go faster cdovego's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Seth was back at the track on Saturday, he'll be just fine (in his own words).

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    Central Mass Powersports #123

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  4. #4
    Senior Member MHenry600's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Sorry to hear about the off. Glad to hear both you and Seth are relatively ok. I didn't work Friday, but heard a little about it.

    For the trouble you're having with blipping on downshifts, I have the same trouble. I can't manage to blip while braking and maintain pressure on the lever. Tried a couple times, just doesn't work for me. I have found it's much more consistent to just grab a down shift and feather the clutch out to keep from locking up.

    I don't race (yet), and I'm surely not as quick as many of the guys on here, but I'd say if you're really having trouble with it, maybe try a different approach. And I'll tell you, while corner working you see a million different ways people do things. Not everyone blips their downshifts...

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  5. #5
    Lifer isaac_'s Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by MHenry600 View Post
    grab a down shift and feather the clutch out to keep from locking up.
    ^^ This.

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    Isaac LRRS/CCS #871 ECK Racing | Spears Enterprises | GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
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  6. #6
    Senior Member BMMCBR's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Glad you're alright. That sounds like some scary shit!


    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    They told me to try Facebook, but I wasn’t able to find him on there either. On Sunday, I heard that he broke a bunch of ribs and got a concussion, which obviously sucks. If anyone is in contact with him, please let him know that I am thinking about him and wishing him a fast recovery.
    He posted about it in the LRRS Motorcycle Racing group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/59693011513/

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  7. #7
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    I think I'm probably just going to go back to standard shift. Having now tried both, my take is that if you upshift between 2-3 and/or 6-7, go GP shift. If not, stay standard shift.

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  8. #8
    364 Beers Shy of a Liter Trajiks9's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Pete, sucks to hear that your weekend was cut short. I spoke to you end of day Thursday and you were about to head in to tech, just when you asked about your cracked belly pan. I suggested you put a bit of duct tape on it. I wish the same suggestion would fix all your pain and damaged bike. Cheers to a speedy recovery!

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  9. #9
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by BMMCBR View Post
    He posted about it in the LRRS Motorcycle Racing group on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/59693011513/
    Thanks, now I see why he was hard to find.

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  10. #10
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Sorry it went this way Pete. I was happy to see you were Ok.

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    Matt
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  11. #11
    Day late, dollar short carsick's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Pete, I did not know about your crash, or I would have been there to hassle you. Your attitude about the crash speaks to your desire to learn from it and keep yourself and others safer. I don't blip at all, but I do grab the downshift only after braking enough to match my speed with the gear. I don't advise it, but I can tell you I've never had trouble with it.

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  12. #12
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Doug's technique is the way to go. Don't blip, just time your shifts correctly. It really only means hesitating less than a second before releasing the clutch provided that you are full on the brakes.

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  13. #13
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    When I was doing :35s, blipping made a huge difference. The rear would stay planted 100% of the time if I did it right. Now it squiggles into 3 and 11 even with the blipping, and sometimes into 6 and 9 where I don't even downshift. I'm wondering if I will find that it doesn't make much difference anymore. I will definitely give no-blipping another try at round 4. Still a bit nervous about 1 and 11, but I'll try it. I firmly believe that I would be at least a full second faster if my downshifting and hard braking was smoother and more consistent.

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  14. #14
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Just time the release of the clutch a little better. wait a beat. A little rear end waggle is appropriate. It's when the rear tire tries to pass the front that you have issues.

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  15. #15
    Lifer isaac_'s Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    When I was doing :35s, blipping made a huge difference. The rear would stay planted 100% of the time if I did it right. Now it squiggles into 3 and 11 even with the blipping, and sometimes into 6 and 9 where I don't even downshift. I'm wondering if I will find that it doesn't make much difference anymore. I will definitely give no-blipping another try at round 4. Still a bit nervous about 1 and 11, but I'll try it. I firmly believe that I would be at least a full second faster if my downshifting and hard braking was smoother and more consistent.
    I'm with Paul D on this one. Also talk to Pete G to see what he does... Not that you should do exactly as he does but might give you some insight.

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    Isaac LRRS/CCS #871 ECK Racing | Spears Enterprises | GMD Computrack Boston | Pine Motorparts/PBE Specialists | Woodcraft | Street & Competition | MTag-Pirelli | OnTrack Media
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  16. #16
    xxaarraa
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Holy... glad you are OK Pete. I've been reading some real unfortunate race reports this morning.

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  17. #17
    Bizarro Zoolander Petorius's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    I'm REALLY terrified by what Eric was describing in advanced school, trailing the clutch out all the way to the apex. I would hate to have a sudden surprise while really leaned over. I wanna get that ish 100% done and released before tip-in.

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  18. #18
    Senior Member Viper897's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Pete, sorry to hear you had the issue in 3.

    As for the not blipping, I was teaching myself that technique all of the 2 day school. And at the 3 previous track days this season. Its not hard to do once you figure it out. I actually started on the street with the sliping the clutch, or as Eric calls it trailing the clutch since the street was much slower than the track.

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  19. #19
    Lifer isaac_'s Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Petorius View Post
    I'm REALLY terrified by what Eric was describing in advanced school, trailing the clutch out all the way to the apex. I would hate to have a sudden surprise while really leaned over. I wanna get that ish 100% done and released before tip-in.
    I'm still struggling trailing the brakes to the apex much less having to trail the clutch

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  20. #20
    Soul Rider Paul_E_D's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Can't do that (tip in after shifting) in T1 , T6 or T11. Might as well get used to it. But you don't have to go all the way to the apex, that's a bit on the advanced side.

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    Last edited by Paul_E_D; 06-23-15 at 10:43 AM.
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  21. #21
    Lifer
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    My attitude with blipping is that it takes too much brain power at my stage of riding development. This is brain power I should be dedicating to braking, line, all that jazz. As soon as I perfect that stuff we can talk about the clutch. Until then I'll just stomp it.

    I do use the trick one of the TTD guys taught me (maybe Tony?!) about leaving two fingers on the bar as spacers behind the lever and not letting the clutch all the way out to the bar on downshifts. I think this has helped smooth downshifts.

    I downshift on the flat. Rear often gets wild into 3. Hasn't caused me an issue yet.

    I'm more interested in the shifting in EVERY braking zone discussion. I'm almost to the point where I'm ready to try GP shift and ready to try a downshift into T6. Probably at next practice.

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    Last edited by nhbubba; 06-23-15 at 11:29 AM.

  22. #22
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_E_D View Post
    Can't do that (tip in after shifting) in T1 , T6 or T11. Might as well get used to it. But you don't have to go all the way to the apex, that's a bit on the advanced side.
    I'm releasing the clutch during the pre-turn in 1, not yet during the turn.

    I was having a problem with t6 and found downshifting later and releasing the clutch during tip-in helps. But then I found just going faster and not downshifting at all going into t6 in 4th gear works even better. Be careful though because if you don't keep your speed up you will bog down hard and lose essential momentum. For me, doing t6 "properly" in 4th is just on the brink of my comfort zone, so I was switching it up depending on the situation this weekend.

    ....confused why Paul chooses not to race anymore....

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    Last edited by m3sb; 06-23-15 at 11:37 AM.
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  23. #23
    Perpetual Amateur CEO's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    I don't blip... too much to think about. I see some guys do it and can't understand how they are managing their braking and doing that at the same time. Agree on the just waiting a second after you set the brakes to do your downshifts.

    After a while on multiple bikes, rear end movement during braking, especially in 1 and 11, doesn't really bother me. In fact it feels weird if it doesn't happen.

    One solution is a slipper clutch, if you want to not blip and not have the shimmies. It's not a terribly cheap solution though.

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  24. #24
    Lifer Kurlon's Avatar
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by CEO View Post
    One solution is a slipper clutch, if you want to not blip and not have the shimmies. It's not a terribly cheap solution though.
    They're great, come flying into 1, drop from 6th to 1st and let go of the left bar and your bike just glides, clutch slipping, motor holding some revs for a bit while the bike slows to match the gearing.

    Then you jump on a bike with no slipper, more engine braking and a reverse shift pattern. Tokyo Drift time y'all!

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  25. #25
    xxaarraa
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    Re: LRRS AM 365 Round 3 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurlon View Post
    They're great, come flying into 1, drop from 6th to 1st and let go of the left bar and your bike just glides, clutch slipping, motor holding some revs for a bit while the bike slows to match the gearing.

    Then you jump on a bike with no slipper, more engine braking and a reverse shift pattern. Tokyo Drift time y'all!
    Come on Kurlon, are you really in 6th on the straight at Loudon?!?!?!?!?!?! What are you riding? A CRF450?! (and is that even a 6 speed?)

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