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SENA 20S

  1. #1
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    SENA 20S

    So I’ve been using SENA SMH5’s for a couple years now. When I purchased the SMH5, I bought the oversized speakers for them. I used mine on pretty much a daily basis, for music and directions while riding alone, as well as use them when my wife is with me for rider to passenger communication. When I bought the SENA units I had previously had a pair of Scala G4’s. The G4’s had relatively small buttons and it was hard to switch modes. Both of the G4 units failed within a month of their warrantee’s expiring, so I was going with something other than Scala.

    When riding with my wife she likes to keep the intercom open, so she can comment on things as we are riding. When we had the G4’s this was a challenge for her, as with gloves on it was hard to find the right button to do this. The SENA SMH5’s make this much easier, as you only need to hit the big jog button, but because of her experience with the G4’s she tended to not want to do that, but just keep the channel open. For many rides this is perfectly fine. For rides with an actual destination (we sometimes will pick a city somewhere in the NE and book a hotel for Saturday night, ride there during the day on Saturday, spend the night, and ride back on Sunday) where I need directions from my phone, keeping the intercom open all the time means that I sometimes miss directions. Usually this isn’t that big of a deal, sometimes it is.

    Last summer when the 20S was introduced I decided to buy one (just one, not 2) to use as my primary unit, while allowing the wife to continue to use the SMH5. The “feature” that convinced me to buy was what SENA markets as Audio Multitasking. You can read their description of this at 20S - Sena and figure out what you think it is. I *assumed* this was full Audio MUX. In my experience so far, it isn’t… More on that later.

    So, I purchased the 20S the day it was available. I bought mine through some weird thing, where it was part of a set that was split up, which meant not getting manuals or official packaging, which was fine (manuals were downloadable anyway and I’m not that into the “unboxing” experience). One of the things that I always hated about the SMH5 was that the mount was separate from the “plug”. On my G4’s the plug was part of the mount itself, so putting it on the helmet was plugging it in. The SMH-5 you had to put on the mount, then plug in a small cable for the speakers / mic. The 20S has fixed this. If you put the unit on the mount, it automatically gets plugged in. You don’t have to do 2 things (sometimes with gloves on) to put it on, just plug it in and it will work. Good improvement. I’m also reasonably sure that the 20S came with both a boom mic and a button mic (for a full face) helmet. I remember that not being the case on the SMH5, and I had to order one or the other. Another point for the 20S.

    Attaching the mount to the helmet was straight forward (if you’ve ever done this before). I use the “clamp” style mounts, not the sticky mounts. It clamps on the edge of the helmet like others do, requiring I think a couple of hex head screws to tighten down (I think the hex key comes with it). Worked fine. The speakers on the 20S mounted to the ear holes in my helmet, just like they had for the SMH5. No issues there. (Sidebar: I wear HJC helmets, my current street helmet is their older “race” helmet (RPS-10), all of my HJC’s have come “com ready” with a little pocket in the earpiece for mounting speakers… I can’t speak to other manufacturer’s from the helmet standpoint).

    The physical design of the 20S departs somewhat from that of the previous SENA products, but keeps the basic “jog dial” concept, but physically change the shape of it from something of a “dome” to something of a dial. They keep the single button on the “back” of the unit, and add a button to the bottom of the mount. I’m impatient and don’t bother reading what the buttons actually do, and just assume that they work like the SMH5 did… I’m mostly right. Turning on the unit (just like the SMH5) requires you to push down the button on the back (I call it the phone button) and the jog dial at the same time. When you turn it on (and it’s plugged into speaker) it beeps at you and says Hello to let you know it’s working. The same as the SMH-5, the 20S has the volume control “backwards” from the way I think it should work, but it’s consistent. The 20S pairs with my phone reasonably easily, and there’s even a SENA app now. So rather than plugging it into the computer to change settings, I can get to the settings through the phone app. This part is pretty cool. I use google music for listening to stuff and either Waze or Google maps for navigation. Both work well with the phone. It takes me a while to figure out how to get voice commands going with the phone. Pressing the phone button puts the phone into “listen for a command mode”, but it’s not using the SENA speaker (this isn’t really SENA’s fault, but it took me a while). To “fix” this Launch “Google Now”, then use the hamburger menu to get to “Settings”. In Settings go to “Voice” and turn on the switch for “Bluetooth Headset”.

    I run this for a week or so by myself. Every once in a while, for some reason, the thing will just stop playing music… I look at my phone and Bluetooth is disconnected. I wait about 20 seconds, the headset beeps at me to let me know it’s connected again and I have to restart my music. That’s weird…

    Other things I note… The 20S isn’t loud enough. It’s close, but not quite enough. I don’t think it’s as loud as my SMH5 was. I understand the need to protect people’s hearing, but really? There are many complaints about this. Some of the common work arounds are to place the speakers closer to the ear, or replace them with earbuds. No. The helmet has pockets made for the speaker. That’s where they go. The technology exists to make the speakers work, you’ve done it before. Same helmet, same speaker placement, the SMH5 was (just) loud enough, the 20S is not.

    So, wifey and I are leaving for a trip, I need to sync her headset and mine… Find the manual for both the SMH5 and the 20S, put them both in pairing mode… Won’t pair. Turn them both off. Try again. Won’t pair. Spend about 30 minutes trying to get them paired. No. It’s time to leave, we’re just not going to have com on the way there. Once we arrive I spend another hour or so trying to get them paired, no go. Turns out there is a new firmware version available for both, but of course I didn’t bring a computer, so no com on the way home either. This was probably our last trip last year… I put (at least hers) away and didn’t bother with it again until this year.
    I did update the firmware in the 20S before the end of riding season. For the remainder of the season the “Bluetooth” disconnect thing keeps happening. Sometimes it takes 5 minutes to disconnect, sometimes it will work for 5 hours fine. I can’t find a pattern to it at all.

    Riding season is coming this year, there’s another firmware update. I install it. Still doing the Bluetooth disconnect thing. I’m really getting frustrated with the constant disconnects. Is it my phone? Is it the 20S? I end up spending a big chunk of time installing a different android version on my phone, just to eliminate the Bluetooth stack on the phone from being the problem (BTW, phone works fine with every other Bluetooth device that I try it with, so likelihood of phone was low, but, it was a possibility, so I tried). Still random disconnects. I have gotten so frustrated that I did learn that the 20S has voice commands, so that I can restart the music without actually using the phone. Say “Hello SENA”. It says “Please say a command”. Say “Music” and it will restart my playlist (most of the time, sometimes it just fails quietly, sometimes it takes 2 seconds, sometimes it takes 30 seconds, sometimes it doesn’t pay attention to me saying Hello SENA and I have to push the button on the bottom of the phone.

    Remembering my frustration with trying to get my 20S to sync with wifey’s SMH5 previously, a couple days before the trip I get them both out along with the computer. I make sure that everything is running the latest firmware. Follow the direction for pairing them, and it just works, the first time. Either I was a complete idiot previously or updating the firmware has fixed the problem. Units pair fine.
    I test them quickly to make sure I can talk into one and hear it in the other. Works.

    So, were off on our trip. Intercom is working exactly like it should. Now to try the Audio Multitasking. I get directions going on the phone, com channel open with wifey. For some reason I’m not hearing directions. I’m still having to “switch off” the rider to passenger com to listen to the phone. We’re doing about a 6 hour drive, so I just deal with switching for the trip. We get to the hotel that night and I start messing with things.

    It turns out that the Audio multi-tasking was actually working, it just works “crappily” in my opinion. It doesn’t do full Audio “MUX” like I had believed it does. It will play the phone sounds through if there is “no input” on the com channel. It doesn’t mix them. It doesn’t turn one down and the other up. It just waits for the com input to be completely quiet and will then allow the phone to play through. The problem with this… Com is never completely quiet. There’s almost always some small wind noise (I *may* be able to mess with the vox settings on the SMH5, haven’t tried yet) that keeps the com “active” and the phone from being heard. The “killer feature” for which I really purchased the 20S doesn’t work (at all like I expected).

    The Bluetooth disconnect problem with my phone continues. It’s frustrating as can be. This never happened with the SMH5. It does with the 20S. If I had it to do over again I would not have purchased. It’s been far more frustrating that the SMH5’s were. It doesn’t work consistently. It’s got a whole bunch of new voice command / tap sort of features that I don’t use, because the basic things that I wanted from it are lacking.
    I’ve also purchased a set of Bluetooth FRS/GMRS radios to try with this (and use for com with people who are running the chatterboxes), but haven’t had a chance to try even connecting them yet. If I’m ever allowed to ride again maybe I’ll experiment with that.

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  2. #2
    Lifer SwiftTone's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    I didn't read the content Jason but the damn long review shows that you have a lot of time on your hands nowadays.

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  3. #3
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Unfortunately very true.

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  4. #4
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    A TL;DR version would be nice...

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  5. #5
    Lifer
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Heal up bud.

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  6. #6
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    TL; DR

    It works less well than the SMH5 it replaced, but fortunately I'm out a couple hundred dollars.

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  7. #7
    Lifer
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    Re: SENA 20S

    This is part of why I like the SMH5 so much; it's relatively simple. I too had a Scala G4. The user interface on the G4 made me want to smash things. I think this was because it was too feature-rich. Too much crap packed into too small a device. The SMH5 doesn't do as much and is therefore simpler and easy to use.

    I'm interested in what you come up with for FRS/GMRS integration. I also have a FRS radio. Being able to comm with the chatterbox guys without dealing with a chatterbox would be awesome.

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  8. #8
    60% squid duganc1717's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    I just bought a Sena SMH10 from Whitehorse Saturday, so far I could not be more happy. It made me realize what I had been missing dealing with ear buds, wire and apparently crappy Shark helmet speakers, the sound is pretty damn good and plenty loud even at excessive highway speeds. To be fair I did not try linking mine to my fellow riders on the way home, but I did make one phone call on the way home and it seems to work pretty well. I did lose bluetooth (music) communication once on the way home, but when it happened I was playing with the Sena while riding. I probably need some practice using it.

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  9. #9
    Lifer OneCheekRider's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    I LOVE my SMH-10. I too was looking at the 20s for the audio multitasking while riding 2-up. I'm glad I didn't splurge for it now!

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  10. #10
    Permanent N00b -Dutch-'s Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    I have the 10 as well, it has its own problems. I had a pair and broke the first one when I went down last year so I just installed the second on my new helmet last week.

    The first one worked fine with no major complaints, just some weirdness at first when figuring out the "ok Google" interaction.

    With the 2nd, nothing but trouble. I used it Monday on the way to work and it played music for 15 minutes, then shut off. Same thing the next time I tried it. When I got home I was playing with it and noticed on my phone that the Bluetooth connection was constantly connecting and disconnecting, over and over. If you shut off the media option for the connection on the phone it stops, but as soon as you turn it back on it goes berserk. I updated the firmware in hopes it would fix the problem but no luck. I'll try reaching out to Sena this weekend.

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  11. #11
    '12 Tuono & '02 R6 Eric Baker's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    I have one and love it. I don't have any issues with listening to music for hours on end with no interruption. And the volume is very good IMO. Still have yet to pair it up with anybody else or use it for multitasking so can't help there.

    If I remember correctly, the very early models had some issues. They have a two year warranty, I would look in to getting yours replaced.

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  12. #12
    Super Adventurer SRTie4k's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Does the SMH10 work with Scala devices as well?

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  13. #13
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Yes, with the proper firmware the SMH10 will work with Scala devices.

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  14. #14
    Lifer
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Excellent review. The slightly quiet part is pretty crucial IMO considering I think the SMH5 is just barely loud enough, and maybe could be 10% louder. *Assuming you want to wear ear plugs.

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  15. #15
    Senior Member BMMCBR's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Baker View Post
    If I remember correctly, the very early models had some issues. They have a two year warranty, I would look in to getting yours replaced.
    This was going to be my suggestion. I have the 10 and its great and my friends have said nothing but good things about the 20. Maybe yours is just a dud?

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  16. #16
    Permanent N00b -Dutch-'s Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Possibly. I sent them an email last night and am waiting for a response.

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  17. #17

    Re: SENA 20S

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    Other things I note… The 20S isn’t loud enough. It’s close, but not quite enough.
    There is an option to permit setting the volume to more than 70% of the maximum, to protect hearing.
    It's called "Audio Boost", and it's "off". Enable it to get everything.
    Check manual "21.5".

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    I have gotten so frustrated that I did learn that the 20S has voice commands, so that I can restart the music without actually using the phone. Say “Hello SENA”. It says “Please say a command”. Say “Music” and it will restart my playlist (most of the time, sometimes it just fails quietly, sometimes it takes 2 seconds, sometimes it takes 30 seconds, sometimes it doesn’t pay attention to me saying Hello SENA and I have to push the button on the bottom of the phone.
    There's a "feature" since firmware version 1.3 to preserve battery, which stops listening to "Hello Sena" after 60 seconds. It's not mentioned in the manual and (as far as I've read) they will fix this in the next firmware version. Don't know what they'll do, but so they said.

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  18. #18
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Quote Originally Posted by Joghurt View Post
    There is an option to permit setting the volume to more than 70% of the maximum, to protect hearing.
    It's called "Audio Boost", and it's "off". Enable it to get everything.
    Check manual "21.5".
    Yeah, audio boost is on. Still not as loud as my SMH5.
    Quote Originally Posted by Joghurt View Post
    There's a "feature" since firmware version 1.3 to preserve battery, which stops listening to "Hello Sena" after 60 seconds. It's not mentioned in the manual and (as far as I've read) they will fix this in the next firmware version. Don't know what they'll do, but so they said.
    That sounds like a awesome feature.
    I didn't mention battery in my review, but so far I've been relatively happy with the battery life on the 20S.

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  19. #19
    Lifer 01xj's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Quote Originally Posted by -Dutch- View Post
    I have the 10 as well, it has its own problems. I had a pair and broke the first one when I went down last year so I just installed the second on my new helmet last week.

    The first one worked fine with no major complaints, just some weirdness at first when figuring out the "ok Google" interaction.

    With the 2nd, nothing but trouble. I used it Monday on the way to work and it played music for 15 minutes, then shut off. Same thing the next time I tried it. When I got home I was playing with it and noticed on my phone that the Bluetooth connection was constantly connecting and disconnecting, over and over. If you shut off the media option for the connection on the phone it stops, but as soon as you turn it back on it goes berserk. I updated the firmware in hopes it would fix the problem but no luck. I'll try reaching out to Sena this weekend.
    I changed my voice command app to S voice as the default and it works great. Much better than the google voice integration/ abomination. When I push the phone button it send a chime, and you just speak after the chime for whatever prompt you want.

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  20. #20
    ....................... PinHead's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Sounds like a lot of kinks have been worked out if it is set up properly. Still debating on which one to get.

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  21. #21
    Lifer
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Quote Originally Posted by jasnmar View Post
    I didn't mention battery in my review, but so far I've been relatively happy with the battery life on the 20S.
    I think I finally found something to complain about with my SMH5-FM. The way it handles a low battery alert. The first time it plays the "Low Battery" voice alert is usually very close to when it's about to turn itself off. Like maybe 5-8 minutes. I don't know if that's a bug, or a feature - but I think I'd appreciate a little more advanced warning. Do you know how it is handled with the 20S?

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  22. #22
    Lifer
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    Re: SENA 20S

    My SMH5 usually tells me the battery is low as it is shutting itself down; no warning.
    My solution: charge it daily, maybe every other.

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  23. #23
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Quote Originally Posted by aldend123 View Post
    I think I finally found something to complain about with my SMH5-FM. The way it handles a low battery alert. The first time it plays the "Low Battery" voice alert is usually very close to when it's about to turn itself off. Like maybe 5-8 minutes. I don't know if that's a bug, or a feature - but I think I'd appreciate a little more advanced warning. Do you know how it is handled with the 20S?
    Quote Originally Posted by nhbubba View Post
    My SMH5 usually tells me the battery is low as it is shutting itself down; no warning.
    My solution: charge it daily, maybe every other.
    When my 5s were new I remember the warning being better. Just before I got the 20S my experience was the same as Bub's. Warning and off. That behavior led me to charging them very regularly. To be honest I don't know if I've experienced this with the 20S yet. I charge it at least every other day, and haven't had trouble with it. I did do a trip to from Niagara Falls to Chichester without charging.

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  24. #24
    ....................... PinHead's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    Can you get spare batteries for the 20S?

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  25. #25
    Lifer jasnmar's Avatar
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    Re: SENA 20S

    I don't believe that the battery is intended to be "user replaceable" (that doesn't mean that it's not... Just not intended).

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