Riverside Kawasaki

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.508 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

If I changed any gasket on a bike and the owner told me the exhaust note changed, I would, quite literally laugh in their face.

[slammp]

If that is all that you did, I would agree. But what if you picked up your nike from winter storage and it seemed different and then they said "oh yeah we worked on it for you this winter" What if the exhaust note did change? Easy enough to drop something into the cams by accident with the valve cover off.

I'm not saying that is what happened, but they touched it without consent.

On another note, I agree with what was said about continuing to ride it. I actually told him to get an oil additive/engine cleaner and run that through. At this point it cant hurt and might actually help.

[boloson]

isnt every brand new bike "broken in" on a dyno from the factories anyways? so why would this bike's seals fail due to a possible improper break in? and why would the dealer replace something when there was nothing wrong with the bike to begin with?

[Manny]

Here is a suggestion. Why doesn't your friend call the dealer and ask whats up?

Pretty easy: Hey Riverside, what work was done to the bike this winter? How come? Is that standard for bikes left for the winter?

WTF is the point of a thread speculating on what type of work may or may not have been done?

[imkindafkedup]

isnt every brand new bike "broken in" on a dyno from the factories anyways? so why would this bike's seals fail due to a possible improper break in? and why would the dealer replace something when there was nothing wrong with the bike to begin with?

No New bike is broken in, refer to the owner's manual. A recall makes perfect sense for the work being performed. If I had a recall on my bike that I was unaware of and I left it for storage at a certified dealer that was trained to do the repair, I'd hope the do it. Yes, I would hope they asked me before hand but at the same time if I picked it up and they said they performed a recalled repair and gave me the info on it, I'd be happy they got it done.

[boloson]

No New bike is broken in, refer to the owner's manual.

let me rephrase, all new bikes are tested & ran on a dyno at the factories before being distributed to the dealers so yes they are "broken in". owners manual is only a guide. how many people really follow the suggested under 6k rpms per gear? how many people really follow the suggested fuel octane? how many people actually use the recommended suzuki or honda, etc oil? but then again these are things that have always been controversial

[imkindafkedup]

True, especially about the controversial part. I disagree with them being "broken in" by the factory tho. tested and ran on a dyno does not count as broken in. When you "break in" tires for example they say 50 miles or a couple laps before pushing hard on them, thats most certainly not done on a dyno. Same as with the engine, heat cycles need to be completed to break anything in, again something else not done on a dyno.

[Slyder]

I always thought it was better to let an engine get warm before loading it. Cold metal (rings) and thousands of pounds of combustion pressures coupled with hot temperatures sounds like a great way to crack said cold metal. And knowing a kid who never let his bike "warm up", (he loaded the motor while it was cold) and he went through a few sets of pistons rings, also helped convince me.

So when I get my next bike, I have to tell the dealership to NOT start it (which they're gonna do anyhow, and ride it), I gotta pick it up in a truck and take it to the track, dyno, or somewhere I can twist on it right after I fire it up? Oh boy.

[boloson]

True, especially about the controversial part. I disagree with them being "broken in" by the factory tho. tested and ran on a dyno does not count as broken in. When you "break in" tires for example they say 50 miles or a couple laps before pushing hard on them, thats most certainly not done on a dyno. Same as with the engine, heat cycles need to be completed to break anything in, again something else not done on a dyno.

true dat. ok not fully broken in at the factories but would u agree that they were ran hard on the dynos? so i dont think the owners manual way of break in (babying the bike) is needed since it was ran hard at the factories already. i guess im pro mototune.

either way, it seems that the dealer is suspect in this thread

[scottieducati]

Wow I just got dumber on page 2 of this thread.

[butcher bergs]

heat cycles need to be completed to break anything in

Not true at all.

And knowing a kid who never let his bike "warm up", (he loaded the motor while it was cold) and he went through a few sets of pistons rings, also helped convince me.

There's a difference between starting up a cold engine and using it in a mild manner until the temps come in and starting up a cold engine and bringing it up to and past the middle before any temp is evident. The oil can't circulate properly when it's cold (I consider oil "cold" even after sitting during a hot summer day) and while the engine is immediately pushed. That video with the BMW S-RR dashboard functions is a great teaching tool in that it suggests to the rider not to exceed certain RPM's as the engine warms up.

[Doc]

true dat. ok not fully broken in at the factories but would u agree that they were ran hard on the dynos? so i dont think the owners manual way of break in (babying the bike) is needed since it was ran hard at the factories already. i guess im pro mototune.

either way, it seems that the dealer is suspect in this thread

I wouldn't call one pull on a dyno being run hard.

If the owners manual says there is a break in procedure and that lil sticker over the rpm gauge says there is a break in procedure and you just don't follow it because you are smarter than the manufacturer and don't want to baby your new bike... more power to you. It is your bike and you can fuck it up all you want.

Me? I'll "baby" it and follow the break in procedure as outlined by the people that built it and have years or R&D into it.

[scottieducati]

either way, it seems that the dealer is suspect in this thread

Why is that exactly? Because they convey that excessively idling a new bike can cause damage? It's pretty much a proven fact. Note, those stickers (more on that later) Doc mentions say *nothing* about idling it for 15 minutes after start up.

I wouldn't call one pull on a dyno being run hard.

If the owners manual says there is a break in procedure and that lil sticker over the rpm gauge says there is a break in procedure and you just don't follow it because you are smarter than the manufacturer and don't want to baby your new bike... more power to you. It is your bike and you can fuck it up all you want.

Me? I'll "baby" it and follow the break in procedure as outlined by the people that built it and have years or R&D into it.

Right... go watch any factory built machine's motor get broken in Doc. Note that how they themselves break an engine in, and what's on your little sticker are 2 vastly different methodologies. The stickers on new sport bikes are there more for liability than they are to "break in" your motor properly.

[Doc]

Right... go watch any factory built machine's motor get broken in Doc. Note that how they themselves break an engine in, and what's on your little sticker are 2 vastly different methodologies. The stickers on new sport bikes are there more for liability than they are to "break in" your motor properly.

I have seen factory's run the bike as it comes off the line. It is a dyno pull but I wouldn't say they are beating on it or it is "Run Hard". Just looks like they are making sure it all works. 1 run at the factory is not sufficent to "break in" a motor. That is like saying 1 pull in the brake lever is enough to bed the pads.

Now if you are talking a factory racebike motor that is gonna get rebuilt MUCH sooner than a streetbike engine we are talking to different things.

[butcher bergs]

Anyone who is convinced that every single bike by a given manufacturer is dyno-run before it's boxed, ask yourself this question:

If every bike is dyno-run at the factory then why doesn't the rear tire in particular show any signs of wear?

[Degsy]

Trust me, every bike is dyno'd at the factory. All the way to red line for a power check.

[butcher bergs]

Why don't the tires ever show any signs of being on the drum then?


....unless they're doing it from the crank??

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.508 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Nope, rolling road. Don't know why they don't show wear. It only takes 30 seconds though.

[Jaynnus]

Many years ago when I worked for a Honda dealer...the bikes arrived from the factory dissembled and dry.

[scottieducati]

I never implied the power check dyno run was sufficient to "break in" a motor. It does however, seat the rings. The remaining break in is simply mechanical polishing of friction surfaces and all the moving parts finding their "groove" of sorts. Either way, it's a controversial topic and people will do whatever they feel is best. The only two bikes I've owned from new (Triumph 675 and Ducati 848), both were broken in much more like the mototune method than the babying it "sticker" method, and both managed to put slightly higher power #'s than comparably equipped like-models I had seen (123 rwhp on my 848 w/ nothing but the DP termi slipon / ecu / air filter kit for example). And both of which I had absolutely zero mechanical issues or oil loss issues with. I'm pretty happy with those results and will continue to practice that methodology thankyouverymuch!

[boloson]

Why is that exactly? Because they convey that excessively idling a new bike can cause damage? It's pretty much a proven fact. Note, those stickers (more on that later) Doc mentions say *nothing* about idling it for 15 minutes after start up.

no. because the dealer replace something on his bike without the owner's permission & didnt tell him of the replacement until the owner brought the issue to their attention. why would any dealer do that? that's money out their pockets & no dealer is that nice. it appears that they were trying to cover up, (a). a fuck up on their part or (b). a part broke while in storage & they didnt want the owner to think that it was their fault so they replaced the part. regardless of break ins, idles, etc.... the dealer is still suspect for not notifying the owner



and dont take my statements as an attempt to talk down riverside because thats not my intent at all. i buy stuff from them on a regular basis but never dealt with their service dept

[scottieducati]

Well as the details regarding the terms of service for the winter storage have yet to be fully clarified, I wouldn't want to assume something was done in err. If I left my bike with a shop for the winter, was a regular customer of the shop and went there for routine service... and lets say a recall was issued, I would be thrilled if I picked the bike up in the spring and the recall had been performed. Would I like a phone call giving me a heads' up? Absolutely, but if there was consent, implied or otherwise based on the storage agreement then we're talking about a whole other ball of yarn here. Since those details haven't become clear (and people can often forget a casual conversation the fall before last winter), there seems little point asserting either way. Best anyone can do at this stage is speculate.

Either way, as Degsy pointed out a while ago... there's no way replacing a gasket would change the exhaust note, unless the previous gasket was absolutely destroyed and losing compression badly.

[Degsy]

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.508 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

Unless it was a header gasket, which I doubt. Sorry, but sounds like typical anal owner imagining things. How do you remember an exhaust note from way back before winter?

[imkindafkedup]

no. because the dealer replace something on his bike without the owner's permission & didnt tell him of the replacement until the owner brought the issue to their attention. why would any dealer do that? that's money out their pockets & no dealer is that nice.

Dealerships benefit from performing a recall. The cost of the part is covered and their men get paid from the manufacturing either the maker of the vehicle or the company that makes the part that is being recalled in some cases.