NHMS - what would you change

[GingahNinjah]

YAY no more pothole there to worry about if you are getting squeezed to the inside

[caloots]

exactly... and im surprised it hasnt been done.... maybe the AMA would come back?
what is obvious is the competition that's emerging ..
2015 Palmer MA

[Jim]

the officials and cornerworks are WAY more efficient at LRRS events than CCS events. the 9 that i've been to so far have all had shortened races due to delays (registration, crashes, etc). I can recall maybe 1 LRRS event in the 28 I've competed in that had delays. the only times the races have been shortened, was to finish the day before the storm approaching.

[MarkMarine]

I'm a little late to this party, and I hate to offer a problem without a solution, be we need runoff everywhere. Riding around NJMP, I don't even know how I could contact a wall if I tried from the racing line. Riding around Loudon, whacking a wall is always in the back of my mind. Air fence is an effective band-aid in my opinion.

That said, the transition bumps in 10 really need to be softened a bit. I don't mind the other bumps, but that last one almost eats my bike every lap.

[Jim]

I'm a little late to this party, and I hate to offer a problem without a solution, be we need runoff everywhere. Riding around NJMP, I don't even know how I could contact a wall if I tried from the racing line. Riding around Loudon, whacking a wall is always in the back of my mind. Air fence is an effective band-aid in my opinion.

that's the problem with these CCS guys. they go deep into the corners and just have a Plan B method of just using the run off. they have this attitude that they can just go nuts into a corner to pass someone and will just overcook the turn if it doesnt work out. there's guys running off into the grass on every lap in the races, when it simply doesnt happen at NHMS.

[MarkMarine]

that's the problem with these CCS guys. they go deep into the corners and just have a Plan B method of just using the run off. they have this attitude that they can just go nuts into a corner to pass someone and will just overcook the turn if it doesnt work out. there's guys running off into the grass on every lap in the races, when it simply doesnt happen at NHMS.

I'd rather have a plan b every time that didn't involve fracturing my pelvis and getting an artificial hip. Cause that sucked.

[Jim]

you're an NHMS rider, so you have already developed the braking talent. but lots of these CCS guys just plan to overcook the turn and use the run off. NHMS seems to have more skilled riders from what i've been seeing.

[GixerJockey]

Because NHMS is a death trap and requires a greater level of skill to navigate it at a high rate of speed.

And NHMS riders don't overcook turns because they will either slam into a concrete wall, tire wall, fence, a cliff... Did I mention concrete wall?


But I understand what you're saying. Either those guys have no respect for runoff, or they've learned to use it to their advantage. Either way, they'd shit themselves if they ever came to race at NHMS.

[Jim]

which is why the CCS guys say how dangerous NHMS is. there is no Plan B.

[Woodcraft]

If any of you guys have concerns about specific turns at Loudon, please come talk to me up at the track. I'm around - you know where to find me, and I'm always willing to listen. I have ridden a lot of different racetracks (35 at last count) and seen all types of danger everywhere. I'm not going to tell you that NHMS is 100% safe, but I am not going to say that about any racetrack I go to. NJMP for instance (which I like) - have you ever considered how a tankslapper through T11-12 (I've had many there) might end of you got off the track and into the bridge......not well. The same goes for the guardrail on the outside of the last turn - I get through there in 5th gear and crash could be very ugly. I can also point out sections at every single other racetrack I have ever been to that are places that you don't want to crash. It's no coincidence that those places are usually someplace that you are going fast, since it takes the longest distance to stop sliding and thus requires the greatest amount of runoff for ideal safety.

Loudon has walls....we all know that. However, the track is far safer than it ever has been. We now have almost double the airfence that we had a few years ago - particularly in the fast areas where it makes the most difference. Now, is infinite runoff better than airfence? Of course it is. However, I have yet to see someone hit airfence get any serious injury unless they tangle with their motorcycle during a crash. I am the first to admit that I am quite used to Loudon and as a result I don't even see the walls when riding. However, all the walls that are in a likely crash zone are now covered. It's not a "death trap" in my opinion. To say that NHMS riders don't overcook turns.....well, I'd beg to differ. I've overcooked every turn on that track, and I see other racers do it every weekend. The serious injuries in recent years have come from riders hitting tire walls (which are better then hitting solid walls, but they still hurt) and from riders getting tangled with other motorcycles. The areas that used to be littered with tires (Turn 1, Turn 1A, Turn 2, left side Turn 2, Left side turn 8) are ALL now covered with either inflatable or foam airfence. It's WAY better. Can you still get hurt - of course. It's impossible to protect against the crazy odd crashes that are not easily predicted at ANY track. Plus, you can get hurt without hitting anything at all, and the danger of tangling with a motorcycle is always there. These are the parts of our sport that we all accept.

With this said, can we make it better? Of course, we always can. Part of my job is to help determine what is next, and the process never really ends. I don't have any vested interest in the speedway itself - it makes no difference in my paycheck if LRRS makes $10 or $10 Million. My interest is to help the sport of motorcycle racing and track riding grow. Safer racetracks do that, and that's why I spend the time to do what I do. Plus, my own children and most of my friends ride, so I'm protecting the lives of those who I care about most. If the track people at NHMS did not listen to what we have to say, I'd be happy to openly say that and perhaps would have been looking for someplace else to ride myself. However, that is not the case. Things don't always happen in the time frame that we want because budgets are not infinite. If given an open checkbook, there is a lot I would do....but even if we got the best minds together and made every change you could imagine, someone would figure out a way to do something we never counted on. It's the nature of the beast.

Is NHMS more or less safe than other tracks....it's hard to say. I don't like the walls in T2 or T12 on a 1000CC superbike because I can spin the tire well past the end of the airfence. However, most people are not in that category (including me when I'm on a MW bike) so it's not a large % concern. There are less than 5 guys I know who ride Loudon and even consider that issue. On the rest of the track, the places where the walls are close (T3, T1A being the closest) are also where the speeds are lower - which makes them less prone to hurt you. I've hit the airfence in T1 after crashing at 140. Scott Greenwood hit them in turn 8 crashing at 100. Both of us walked away uninjured. So, is it more or less dangerous than track "X"?

Let me be clear, as I am not saying that there is no danger, and every rider needs to decide for themselves what is acceptable and what is not. I'm the first one to join the "T10 bumps suck" bandwagon. They do. I take 10% off there because I don't want to high side (again). However, I can tell you that there are active discussions going on about two different ways to fix it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not going to argue with you if you don't like what you see....that's a personal decision. However, if I didn't feel that it was safe to race (aka - a death trap), then I would not have let my son race here. It's not perfect, but I feel confident that the biggest issues have been addressed. I don't want this thread to go off on some crazy tangent....I want constructive feedback. The season is starting Friday, so please feel free to talk to me personally about anything along these subject lines. I may or may not agree with you, and if you care to know why I'll be happy to tell you. Sometimes a new point of view will cause me to take a 2nd look and change my mind as well.

Here's to a happy, healthy 2014 season for everyone, regardless of whatever track you call your home away from home. As long as you're riding on a track somewhere, that's what counts.

[Jim]

any way we could do something about the Start/Finish line paint? it was super sketchy on the rainy starts this weekend.

[butcher bergs]

Feather the clutch

[Kurlon]

Hell, I was watching middleweights spin it up over the paint every freaking lap. Floored me that they had enough umph to do it with that much speed already built up. All the paint was sketchy Saturday. I kept target fixating on the damn stripes in 2 and 12 guaranteeing I'd hit them every freaking lap...

[Woodcraft]

any way we could do something about the Start/Finish line paint? it was super sketchy on the rainy starts this weekend.

I know the answer on that one.....which will be that it is a same paint that every other SMI and DMG track uses. Plus, they are quite sensitive about making any changes to the NASCAR oval. With bikes putting 120 hp through a small rear contact patch in the start - they spin over the paint (I know I did this weekend). There is no paint that I am aware of that has the same grip as the tarmac in the rain. If you know of something that the track does not, feel free to let me know and I'll be happy to pass it along.

[CBR929RE]

any way we could do something about the Start/Finish line paint? it was super sketchy on the rainy starts this weekend.

while it wasn't really fun or helpful to a good launch it wasn't so bad. the closer you were to the line on the start the worse it was. barely noticed it when we were behind the experts but from the front row in 1a ahead of the novices it spun like hell. I didn't hear of anyone going down because of it so I don't think its a huge issue. if it can be fixed that'd be great but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[cdovego]

I know the answer on that one.....which will be that it is a same paint that every other SMI and DMG track uses. Plus, they are quite sensitive about making any changes to the NASCAR oval. With bikes putting 120 hp through a small rear contact patch in the start - they spin over the paint (I know I did this weekend). There is no paint that I am aware of that has the same grip as the tarmac in the rain. If you know of something that the track does not, feel free to let me know and I'll be happy to pass it along.

Speak to Gil Campbell at Laguna Seca, their paint has more grip in the wet than their asphalt. I do not know the compound but I'm sure she'll share.

[Woodcraft]

It makes total sense that the closer rows had more issue, as the acceleration is much greater in the first several feet than it is when you are going faster. That's why you don't notice it at all when you cross S/F at speed.

[Pigman]

From what I saw 12 was horrible, track was dirty as hell......and no real chages either.


But, I do want to say Thank You for the addition to the Air barriers.....they were a nice add

[scottieducati]

Several abrasive pavement coatings available on the market. Of all the things in this thread, slippery pavement on a race track is the easiest problem to solve. Shouldn't have been a problem from the start, either but as we all know... NASCRAP doesn't race in the rain so why would they care? Thanks for your continued work, Eric.

Skid-Pro: http://www.polyconintl.com/products.html
Safe-T-Grip: http://www.copelandcoating.com/decor...road-surfaces/
Colored Surface Treatments: http://www.highwaysmaintenance.com/c...ID%20SURFACING
Colour Track: http://www.mpspaving.com.au/colour-track.html

[The Snowman]

Well, they did it with the T1a stripe a couple of years ago when several racers went down on the legends 1/8 mile oval start/finish line. Why not the rest of the lines on the track?

[WinVT]

Can we just build a massive dome over the track and avoid adverse weather all together??

Actually, this was my first weekend racing in the rain and I kind of liked it. I didn't notice the start/finish line paint, but talked to several people that did. Don't know that they caused any issues since you're mostly straight up and down there, right? I think the focus should be more on the couple of paint lines on corner exits... I think in 2 and 12 where you are still leaned over and getting on the gas.

[Kurlon]

The one other spot I heard people mention a few times was the pink box diving into 1 as you come off the NASCAR oval. Bad place to suddenly decide to start hard braking over.

[Woodcraft]

As an interesting addendum to this conversation, we talked more this weekend about a possible reconfiguration of turns 9-11 that would add several turns, a bunch of track length and provide tons of runoff in turn 3. If they can get the approval, that might even start late this season. There was also talk about a complete repave of the entire facility (the whole road course + NASCAR oval) that would have all the pavement laid at once and downsize/eliminate all the bumps and seams. No guarantees here, but it is on the table. Finally, the track committed to adding another $80K in airfence for each of the next 2 seasons (that's 320 extra feet per year). When I talked to the owner of the airfence company, he told me that NHMS had more concern for rider safety than 90% of the tracks he deals with. All good stuff.

[Sheppo]

Eric,
what are the chances that the track would not allow motor homes and such in 4,5,6,7,8 etc during NASCAR weekends? That new pavement would get ruined ASAP with that party atmosphere.

[The Snowman]

Eric,
what are the chances that the track would not allow motor homes and such in 4,5,6,7,8 etc during NASCAR weekends? That new pavement would get ruined ASAP with that party atmosphere.

My guess would be slim to none, since they pack people into the venue like sardines and the back half of the road course houses hundreds, maybe thousands of people. People who pay good money to camp there.