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  #1  
Old 06-15-04, 09:48 AM
Mystery Squid
 
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


As you all know, intersections are right up there in the top 10 list of most dangerous places for a motorcyclist. Lately, I’ve been implementing a particular tactic that I believe helps draw attention to the motorcyclist.

When approaching an intersection where the light has been green for a while, and traffic is moving at more or less the speed limit, my awareness spikes when I see an opposing car stopped, waiting for a break in traffic to cross the road. We all know, and assume (I hope) that this vehicle will not see us, thus we approach with a plan already in mind about what to do if the driver should suddenly attempt to lunge across your path.

So lately, what I’ve been doing as I approach similar situations, is “erratically” weave in more or less of an “S” pattern in my own lane, right up to (and sometimes through, depending upon the layout of the intersection) the intersection (with my “out plan” already factored in). There seem to be some advantages to this:

1. Car waiting to turn is more likely to notice you because of this erratic behavior and is likely to think, “WTF is he doing? Is he drunk? Nuts?” Point is, they NOTICE you.
2. Effective headlight modulation, for as you weave, your headlight keeps changing position.

Now I’ve been doing this, for about a month or two now, and I’ve noticed that the weaving DOES grab people’s attention. I’ve noticed that when I do this on Rte. 3 and 128, cars will usually drop behind me and give me more room (especially in “tight” traffic situations) most likely because they think the rider is a “nut” and at any moment could do something stupid, so they back off. It creates some measure of uncertainty on their part, and in some cases, keeping them oblivious to what you might do, works in your favor.

I’m sure the “nay-sayers” will chime in, but I encourage all readers to simply think about it for a while, then draw your own judgments.
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  #2  
Old 06-15-04, 09:56 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


I do this too and it does work. I also sometimes switch to high beam and leave my lights bright until I am through the intersection. I would caution all of you not to go to high beam too late though, you do not want to give the impression you are flashing your lights as an invitation to cut in front of you.
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  #3  
Old 06-15-04, 10:03 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Whatever keeps you safe man... I can understand your concept... My only thought would be if they still didn't see you... would your weaving back and forth lessen your reaction time? Probably not... but that was my only concern about your concept...

Personally when approaching an intersection as you've described I will back off the throttle... scan the intersection... attempt to see where the yohoos are looking... and watch the wheels of any car I question... since I will notice the wheel start to move before I would watching the entire car...

This has always worked well for me... but I say do what works for you...

Another plan of attack that I'm sure is obvious to most but I will mention is when simply riding along in traffic... I mimick what the person a few cars ahead is doing rather then the one immediately in front of me... Meaning... if three cars up I see brake lights.... I brake etc... that way I am prepared for what might be ahead... also prepared for the person immediately in front of me to not be paying attention...

I imagine this upsets people behind me sometimes since they probably don't understand why I'm braking and the person in front of me isn't... but luckily I don't give a shit
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  #4  
Old 06-15-04, 10:12 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Vince, while we're sort of on the subject, what's the word on the street about lane splitting in the great state of Massachusetts?

What I mean is, while I realize it is illegal, any idea what your fellow occifers think/do when they see a bike splitting lanes on the highway in heavy traffic? How about in the cities, at stoplights?

I've never lanesplit on the highway, but in heavy stoplight traffic in Boston the temptation overcomes me now and again. Also on Storrow, when it's backed up getting to 93N. I figure if they were gonna pull *everybody* in Boston over who made an occasional illegal maneuver with their vehicle, there wouldn't be many cars on the road. Which, OTOH, would do wonders for parking
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  #5  
Old 06-15-04, 10:42 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Tree Squid / Vince-

those are both techniques I've used for awhile, and found 'em to be effective in ensuring I'm seen-- and opening up a zone around me. not only does this work in slow traffic... but also on 93 / 89 / 128 when some idjit wants to make me a hood ornament, even tho they can't go any faster than the nineteen cars ahead of me are.

be noticed, establish your zone-- to me, those are biggies when riding among the cage-bound sheep.
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  #6  
Old 06-15-04, 11:12 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by Honclfibr
Vince, while we're sort of on the subject, what's the word on the street about lane splitting in the great state of Massachusetts?

What I mean is, while I realize it is illegal, any idea what your fellow occifers think/do when they see a bike splitting lanes on the highway in heavy traffic? How about in the cities, at stoplights?

I've never lanesplit on the highway, but in heavy stoplight traffic in Boston the temptation overcomes me now and again. Also on Storrow, when it's backed up getting to 93N. I figure if they were gonna pull *everybody* in Boston over who made an occasional illegal maneuver with their vehicle, there wouldn't be many cars on the road. Which, OTOH, would do wonders for parking
To be honest... I dunno Hmmm it hasn't come up in my short carreer yet... I'll have to probe around and see what a consencious is... My only thought would be how it was done... circumstance etc... I could see someone getting pulled for it if done recklessly etc... I'll dig around... see what I can come up with...
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  #7  
Old 06-15-04, 12:20 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Another helpful technique is if you have a european bike alot of them will have a headlight modulator for passing... if your bike doesn't have one, mostly likely you can buy a kit to do it (or euro handgrip controls)

Hold down that little trigger while going through an intersection and it definitely draws attention.

Cheers,
Chris
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  #8  
Old 06-15-04, 12:22 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


If the cops see you lane split, and can easily get to you, you done. Ticket for lanesplitting and recless/driving to endanger if the cop is pissed about it.
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  #9  
Old 06-15-04, 10:00 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by Paul_E_D
If the cops see you lane split, and can easily get to you, you done. Ticket for lanesplitting and recless/driving to endanger if the cop is pissed about it.
god damn cops!!! i just wanna be first in line at red light. go arrest the real bad guy(s).
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  #10  
Old 06-15-04, 11:17 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


I completely agree that the weaving technique makes other drivers take more notice. I think you nailed the reason on the head too - cages will think your a lunatic for riding like that and keep their distance. But hey, whatever works.

I just sit straight up and make sure I'm covering brake and clutch when I hit most intersections. As long as you're making a mental note to do SOMETHING, then you'll be as prepared as possible.
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  #11  
Old 06-15-04, 11:26 PM
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Like the "s" weave


Squid:

I do that on the highway to enlarge my comfort zone.

Kinda "S" but ...more like defining the box. left then right then left edge etc..................promoting even tire wear? lol

Who knows if its good or entices some punk to "bump" me.


-Suf Daddy
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  #12  
Old 06-16-04, 03:28 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by Paul_E_D
If the cops see you lane split, and can easily get to you, you done. Ticket for lanesplitting and recless/driving to endanger if the cop is pissed about it.
of course the cop will be pissed, he will be stuck in traffic with all the other cars thusly he will not be able to get to you either

be glad there are no motorcycle police officers in new england... they are sneaky!
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  #13  
Old 06-16-04, 04:05 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by elaineo
be glad there are no motorcycle police officers in new england... they are sneaky!


um-m-m... maybe there aren't in Cambridge, but there shore are elsewhere, ma'am...
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  #14  
Old 06-16-04, 08:49 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Defensive Driving 101 - "Advanced Maneuvers"

By the Mr. E Squid School for Advanced Motorcycle Piloting
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  #15  
Old 06-16-04, 09:38 AM
Mystery Squid
 
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Wow... For some reason, definitely NOT the reactions I expected... I thought the majority was going to chime in with all sorts semi-crackpot safety-logic-issues....

Glad many have come to the same conclusion at one point or another!

Suf phrased the highway aspect of it perfectly with "defining the box", when riding alone, I do it just about all the time, I'll weave up reasonably close to the car ahead of me, ease off the throttle, let it move forward, well, you get the idea "defining the box" is exactly what it is

Come to think of it, I recall in a past ride where bemused was sweeping, SPECIFICALLY seeing his headlight bob way in the back as we changed lanes on the highway... There were maybe 4 or 5 bikes between us, and that headlight bob caught my attention, thus giving me all sorts of "reference point" related information...

Heck since we're on the topic, and I had no idea other riders used this tactic, post up some of your tactics. I want to see/read if there's anything I might actually be missing within this theme...

Here are some more of mine:

- When moving in and out of traffic on crowded highways, I will usually "angrily" point into a space I'm moving into. I basically "throw" my finger down towards the open space, and try to project that, "THAT'S MY SPACE MOTHER FU#$ER!" (also makes me feel like I'm getting some form of revenge for the a-holes that deliberately invade the BOX.

- I never ride too long within any vehicles "blind spot". The longer you hover in their blind spot, the more likely they are to "forget" you are there, thus increasing the possibility that they might turn right into you for whatever reason (I ALWAYS assume they WILL forget, AND turn in towards me, thus, my space cushion).

- (this is sure to legitimately be controversial )

When aggressively "working" traffic (weaving in and out of lanes in between cars) I try to keep in mind the perspectives of all the other drivers in my forward vicinity (this does not mean attention to what is going on behind is ignored, I frequently glance behind me in some fashion (either by a quick physical head turn, or a glance into the mirrors, depending on the situation at hand of course, because I always ASSUME some a-hole who's doing the same thing is going to come up charging behind me (or a cop )). More often than it should be, making a run for an open space up ahead in a lane to either side of you will result in you making a diagonal "B-line" into someone's blind spot, and considering they may know there's an open space beside them (and we ASSUME they know), they might (again, assume WILL) decide to turn into it. Thus, I keep my cushion, and my "out" vector in mind.

- (another controversial one )

Since I usually ride with music, while riding alone (and even 2 up when both parties are plugged into the Ipod (but we won't get into that )). Depending upon how I'm feeling, I'll "bop" around on my seat, and frequently implement flagrant arm gestures in line with whatever I'm listening to. For example, when the following lyrics kick in within one of my favorite songs ("Other World" by Beborn Beton): "Don't you worry, they won't find my body, I want to you know I've found peace in another world, don't keep digging I want you TO LEAVE, BACK AWAY from the place where my ashes are buried....", there is a fair amount of angry pointing with my left arm... Once again, this kind of thing definitely gives drivers the impression you're another "whacked" biker riding erratically, so stay the HELL AWAY!
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  #16  
Old 06-16-04, 09:40 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by bemused


um-m-m... maybe there aren't in Cambridge, but there shore are elsewhere, ma'am...
I know some cities have them, but are there motorcycle staties in Mass? I don't think a city bike cop can pull you over for lane splitting on a state road..? but i'm not a lawyer/cop
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  #17  
Old 06-16-04, 10:29 AM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


if not mention yet, get eye contact.

stay away from women driver. fuck almost took me out already.
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  #18  
Old 06-16-04, 11:18 AM
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motorcycle cops.....


as far as there not being any motorcycle cops, just dont tell 3 of the guys that I ride with, one is a motorcycle cop in Cambridge and the others are boston motorcycle officers.

Jesse
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  #19  
Old 06-16-04, 12:23 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
stay away from women driver.
OK, this one's gonna get me into trouble today... I've now read and/or been told about 3 separate incidents of riders going down in Mass from a vehicle that pulled out right in front of them at an intersection or sidestreet junction - EVEN AFTER MAKING EYE CONTACT!

The perps just happened ot all be women, who all also ran the scene in their SUV or luxury sedans. My brother in law was one of the victims of the 3 diff incidents, and he is a cop.

Is this coincidence or by design down there in Mass?? I would hope to think that the cell phone yapping yuppy dudes are also capable of the intersection "madness," but have not heard it specifically yet... Anyone been run down by an inconsiderate man yet?!

Squid?? What's the expert opinion on this??
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  #20  
Old 06-16-04, 12:39 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by RedRider


Squid?? What's the expert opinion on this??
Honestly?

Because most women don't take driving as seriously as most men.

They see it as a task, not unlike how most men view house cleaning "chores". Driving to them is more of a "secondary" task. Talking on the phone, putting on make up, watching a dash mounted DVD, eating popcorn, etc. is merely a way to pass the time while performing this awfully tedious task.

Given, full attention is rarely ever paid to the task of driving itself, just the bare minimum to get from point A to point B.

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Old 06-16-04, 12:59 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


/me raises hand

I was run down by a male driver who I thought even made eye contact with me. He was blabbing on the cell phone, trying to "close a deal" and went right through a stop sign, no stop. I saw that he wasn't going to make the stop sign so I applied maximal brakes to try to stop before the intersection he was about to fly through. I came '' close to hauling down from 50 to 0 in enough space, but he clipped my front tire... Guess what he says to the cop when the cop arrives "I didn't even see him, he must have been going too fast" never minding the fact that he blew through the stop sign... luckily the cop saw that he couldn't have hit me where he hit me with the speed he hit me unless he hadn't stopped at the stop sign...

In any case, it ain't just women who ignore the road while driving its equally men...

Cheers,
Chris
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  #22  
Old 06-16-04, 01:09 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


K, that's what I was looking for... thanks Hohum.

In my case, I've had more close calls with women drivers up here in NH (I've been keeping track), some who have even honked at me after I've done nothing wrong!! They were at fault!

I wanted to see if it was a disproportionate occurence or just a matter of coincidence. Considering the amount of times I've been cut off by men while down in Mass, I figured men had to be just as guilty of cutting off bikers down there and running them down. I personally avoid riding my bike in Mass, just on the basis of knowing that drivers are less considerate and more aggressive/ignorant than has been my experience up in NH.

Sounds like it's an equal opportunity thrash-fest on us bikers!!

Hohum, the up side of being crashed into by a man is the fact you can still kick the sh*t out of him after (assuming you aren't dead)!!
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  #23  
Old 06-16-04, 01:16 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by Mystery Squid
Given, full attention is rarely ever paid to the task of driving itself, just the bare minimum to get from point A to point B.
Most insurance companies would disagree with you.

It's pretty well established that, statistically, gender plays a large if diminishing role in your likelihood to crash from age 16 up until about age 30, at which point other factors have become more important. Simply put, most men will drive like idiots from age 16 until about age 30, all the while convinced that they are much better drivers than their female counterparts.

But statistics don't lie. We *are* idiots
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  #24  
Old 06-16-04, 01:48 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by RedRider


Considering the amount of times I've been cut off by men while down in Mass, I figured men had to be just as guilty of cutting off bikers down there and running them down. I personally avoid riding my bike in Mass, just on the basis of knowing that drivers are less considerate and more aggressive/ignorant than has been my experience up in NH.

I find people are more considerate of me on my motorcycle in rural MA then they typically are in rural NH. In rural NH, I run into lots of slow moving, rusty, pickup trucks driven by greasy looking guys that could care less if you are behind them and would like to do more than the speed limit-10. Not as many of those guys in MA. I also find pedestrians in MA more pleasant. I've been yelled at several times by pedestrians standing in the street talking to each other on blind corners in NH, even though they really should not be on the traveled way and I was able to easily slow/stop and maneuver around them. People seem less likely to that in MA for some reason. That said, if you compare Raymond NH to Lawrence MA, Raymond wins hands down...
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Old 06-16-04, 01:50 PM
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Squid’s Controversial Aggressive/Defensive Riding Tactic No. 4281A(a)(3)(I)(ii)


Quote:
Originally posted by Honclfibr
Most insurance companies would disagree with you.

It's pretty well established that, statistically, gender plays a large if diminishing role in your likelihood to crash from age 16 up until about age 30, at which point other factors have become more important. Simply put, most men will drive like idiots from age 16 until about age 30, all the while convinced that they are much better drivers than their female counterparts.

But statistics don't lie. We *are* idiots
insurance co also give discounts to teachers....

Just comparing age is not neough infor for me. I want to see how many miles these men and women are driving. For the most part I would say that men have a lot more miles under their belt thus more and experience and more chances for an accidient....
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