If you have a 2002-2005 VFR... FYI!

[benVFR]

I know there are only a couple people on the board who have this bike besides me.

As you know there has been plenty of whining, gnashing of teeth, wrining of hands, etc.. about VTEC transitions, abrupt on/off throttle transitions, flat spot & stuttering in the EPA 4000-5000 range, etc.. with this bike.

Some people claim to have it, some people don't.

The riders in the UK have been much more obnoxious bothering Honda about this.

It sounds like someone has finally figured it out and Honda is maybe going to come clean and issue a service bulletin on this.

Anyway it is a 5 minute fix you can do in your garage if your bike is affected.

Unlike most bikes, this bike has two Oxygen sensors in the large collector under the bike. The catalytic converter is in this part of the exhaust, it is at the very bottom of the bike.

If you look from the left side of the bike you can see the two O2 sensors sticking out of the side.

Take the left fairing off and/or just loosen it and pull it back. Trace the wires from the 02 Sensors to the wiring harness. One of the O2 sensors has a black plug, and the other has a white plug.

The cause of the FI problems is apparently that some of the bikes had the O2 sensors reversed during assembly. Each of the sensors is responsible for controlling the mixture on two of the cylinders. The sensor that attaches to the black plug on the wiring harness is supposed to be installed in the TOP exhaust port. The sensor that attaches to the white plug should be installed in the BOTTOM port. If they are reversed it is supposedly confusing the hell out of the ECU as it will try to adjust mixture and the sensors will read wrong. (E.x. the rear cylinders are supposed to run richer than the front cylinders AFAIK)

If your are reversed you can just reverse them where they attach to the wiring harness, there is no need to take the sensors out of the exhaust and swap them.

I already have the O2 eliminators and the PCIII but I'm going to go check my bike. If mine are reversed I am tempted to try zeroing my map and plugging the sensors back in. If it fixes the throttle response it'll be a tough decision as the bike does get better range stock. Hard to say though as it runs great with the mods too.

If you don't have any mods it is definitely worth checking this.

Ben

[Stoneman]

But what oil should you run in 'em?

[Nikon]

Originally posted by Stoneman
But what oil should you run in 'em?

uh oh.....please not again....

(2222)

[Wayne-o]

When I bought the VFR I expected Honda quality and precision. I didn't find it in the VFR. That's why i got rid of it. I didn't wanna have ta sift through engineering issues that should have been addressed at the factory!

Wayne-o

[benVFR]

So you got a Ducati.

[Wayne-o]

Originally posted by benVFR
So you got a Ducati.

So far I have had no problems with the Ducati. It is a simpler machine to say the least. As I have said before.......Honda is in the forefront of enviromental issues but, I wish they didn't market a bke before it was ready!


Wayne-o

[SEVENSGT]

and as long as the valves don't need a check every 6k I'm good

[Wayne-o]

Originally posted by SEVENSGT
and as long as the valves don't need a check every 6k I'm good

It's like any other bitch. Ya gotta get between er legs and smell the smell ta make adjustmemts.

[benVFR]

I kind of agree with the issue that the 2008 emissions stuff was stuck in the bike before it was ready.

I'll be curious to see if this rumored fix actually works. Otherwise I could care less that I've disabled some of the emissions, the fuel injection is just about perfect now. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

All I know is we are going to see a lot more bikes with shitty injection in the next few years.

[mikeb]

thanks for the info ben. when it gets above 3 degree's i'll check mine out.

wayne you know you loved the vfr it was just to much bike for ya thats why your pimp'in around the little monster now. plus you had the silver one if only you had gotten flat black......

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by SEVENSGT
and as long as the valves don't need a check every 6k I'm good

I've always wondered about this, why does ducati stick with the desmodromic valve system? Seems like it's been shown you can make a reliable, high-revving engine without the need for complex positive closure systems, so where is the advantage here?

[highsider]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I've always wondered about this, why does ducati stick with the desmodromic valve system? Seems like it's been shown you can make a reliable, high-revving engine without the need for complex positive closure systems, so where is the advantage here?

The advantage:

The use of the ever-so-cool word "Desmo".

[richw]

desmo

It was the cats Meow against flat head harleys

Valve spring steel is real hightechnology

I would be interesting to pop the top of their GP bike and see if they are true to the religon

Of course if you ask why desmo then you have to ask all sorts of questions like BMW religon, motoguzzi's still alive, bigfoot,ancient astronauts.

Perceived advantage even if it is misapplied technology ala VFR vtec. My bike has 20 valves not 16 see I know mine is better I can feel my genitals swelling to an impressive size.

[Paul_E_D]

I think the benefits have been born out on the motogp bike. 18,000 revs with no valve float or spring failure.

It's also a brand identifying technology.

Why bother to change this tech is a better question...
It hasn't hurt them yet.

[benVFR]

But what is the advantage on the street?

Ducatis seem largely about good marketing, but they definitely are not revving higher than bikes with more conventional cam/spring arrangements.

Is there something about the desmo valvetrain that makes it better on a 999 then Honda's design on say an RC51, when the 999 doesn't rev anywhere near 18,000rpm?

I never got the impression the Desmosedici version of the valves have that much similarity to the street bikes either. Do 999, 749s, etc.. have gear driven cams?

[Paul_E_D]

There is no advantage to any of this stuff on the street. They are all good systems that MORE than do the job for a street bike.

Ducati has been a race oriented company from the start. They've done amazingly well for a small company not copying the japanese.

The 9** bikes proved to be a more successful platform than the RC51. It wasn't really desmo that did it, but an overall design/marketing philosophy. It was cheaper to make a competitive Ducati, so more people did it.

Ducati NEEDS to capitalize on the difference in tech. Otherwise they wouldn't survive against giants like Honda and Yamaha. Those companies put out great bikes, but they are not exactly good for the diversity of the industry. How many brittish companies did they snuff out in a ten year period? I don't know about you, but I dread the day when we're all riding the same damn bike...

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
Ducati NEEDS to capitalize on the difference in tech. Otherwise they wouldn't survive against giants like Honda and Yamaha. Those companies put out great bikes, but they are not exactly good for the diversity of the industry. How many brittish companies did they snuff out in a ten year period? I don't know about you, but I dread the day when we're all riding the same damn bike...

But that's where I get confused, how are they capitalizing on a difference in tech by promoting a system with clear disadvantages and no clear advantages? Competition is great, but if I compare the ducati against another bike, the desmo system strikes me as a negative, not a positive.

[MC]

But that's where I get confused, how are they capitalizing on a difference in tech by promoting a system with clear disadvantages and no clear advantages?

Just ask Harley Davidson!

[Paul_E_D]

Hmmm, Explain to me how it is a negative?

It's the top end design of the most successful superbike ever.

What part of success don't you understand?

I know there is a lot of quibbling about the rules, but results are undeniable. If the system was a negative design point, then it's success is even MORE impressive.

I don't think it's the BEST system, I wouldn't pretend to know what is. But why deny that it has worked for MANY years in the racing environment.

[MC]

I think what he's refering to as inferior is the shorter valve check interval of Ducati vs. the competition.

[Wayne-o]

WoW.............I never thought the conversation would turn into VFR vs. Ducati. For me, I thought it was time to move away from a bike that represented a race bike. I have always loved the sound of the Ducati.

For me the S4R does it. It's a bike similar to a Harley in that you can personalize it. A bike you can make your own like a Harley....but with a little more class IMHO. There wasn't much I cudda done with my CBR600RR to personalize it to make it say me. It was dam near perfect out of the box. For a street bike I like the idea of being able to add shiny bits that make it sparkle to your own liking. If I were to have a bike for the track I think there would be other choices I would make. But, I am a street rider and a touring rider at heart.

It’s a great bike ta meet with peeps and talk shop a bit and glow over what they have done to their bike. I think my view of riding and the machine I enjoy riding is perhaps quite different from most that frequent forums such as this. Riding not racing is where I find my pleasure. The Ducati in more ways than one does this for me.

Wayne-o

[Wayne-o]

Originally posted by blackvfr
thanks for the info ben. when it gets above 3 degree's i'll check mine out.

wayne you know you loved the vfr it was just to much bike for ya thats why your pimp'in around the little monster now. plus you had the silver one if only you had gotten flat black......

MIke,

We gonna swap off for a bit this season. You ride mine and I ride yours (NOT IN VERMONT THOUGH )

I'll make you a convert yet.!!!!!!!

Wayne-o

[Wayne-o]

Originally posted by blackvfr
wayne you know you loved the vfr it was just to much bike for ya thats why your pimp'in around the little monster now. plus you had the silver one if only you had gotten flat black......

PIMPIN?. You HONDA SLUT.

Ok....that's it.......I'm gonna put on knobies next time we ride in VT.

AND WE AIN'T GOING BACK ON ROUTE 9

Wayne-o

[MC]

No no...don't get me wrong, I love my VFR but I'm certainly not going to back it as being an example of a "superior" sport bike. To each his own. I've just always been suprised that Ducati and its engines have aquired such a fanatical following while requiring so much extra maintinence compared to the Japanese brands

[mikeb]

Originally posted by FireNutzRR
PIMPIN?. You HONDA SLUT.

Ok....that's it.......I'm gonna put on knobies next time we ride in VT.

AND WE AIN'T GOING BACK ON ROUTE 9

Wayne-o

i may be a slut but i'm no honda slut when it comes to bikes i'm far from brand loyal. i see your point about being able to customize your bike. pipes are about the only thing i can do to mine unless i make it look like a stunter bike. a vfr stunter bike i'm afraid to ride your bike i might like it to much!