[KillBill]

I just got these --- thought i'd pass them on.


> >
> > Just in case you haven't heard of these. One thing that is not
> > mentioned is too never put more in your gas tank after the
> automatic
> > shutoff (Do not pack it in).
> > Tricks to get your money's worth
> >
> > TIPS ON PUMPING GAS--GOOD INFO
> > I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline....Here in
> > California we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon.
> But
> > my line of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here
> are
> > some tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon.
> >
> > Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose , CA
> we
> > deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the
> > pipeline. One day is diesel the next day is jet fuel, and
> gasoline,
> > regular and premium grades. We have 34-storage tanks here with
> a
> > total capacity of 16,800,000 gallons.
> >
> > Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when
> the
> > ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service
> stations
> > have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the
> ground
> > the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline
> expands,
> > so buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is
> not
> > exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific
> gravity
> > and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel,
> ethanol
> > and other petroleum products plays an important role. A
> 1-degree
> > rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the
> service
> > stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps.
> >
> > When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle
> to a
> > fast mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three
> (3)
> > stages: low, middle, and high. In slow mode you should be
> pumping on
> > low speed, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while
> you
> > are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you
> are
> > pumping on the fast rate, some of the liquid that goes to your
> tank
> > becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into
> the
> > underground storage tank so you're getting less worth for your
> > money.
> >
> > One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank
> is
> > HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas
> you
> > have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space.
> Gasoline
> > evaporates faster than you can imagine. Ga soline storage tanks
> have
> > an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance
> > between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the
> evaporation.
> > Unlike service stations, here where I work, every truck that we
> load
> > is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the
> > exact amount.
> >
> > Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the
> > storage tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most
> likely
> > the gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered,
> and
> > you might pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the
> > bottom.
> >
> > Hope this will help you get the most value for your money.

[Pittenger5]

I bet you could save more on gas commuting on a motorcycle one day of the year instead of a car than following those tips, it all just seems to be talkign absolute MINUTE amounts of fuel

[RyanNicholson]

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

I bet you could save more on gas commuting on a motorcycle one day of the year instead of a car than following those tips, it all just seems to be talkign absolute MINUTE amounts of fuel

might make a difference for vehicles with large tanks though (big trucks, RV's, etc)

[KillBill]

Pittenger - I agree. That's why my 06' GSX-R has over 15k on it

[bottoj]

Very nominal amounts of fuel savings can mean that future generations have just that much more fuel. Check out this website:

Fossil Fuels

It states that we will run out of natural petrol reserves in anywhere between 17 and 50 years. What does that mean for us? Motorcycle enthusiasts will have to look for other means of fun (fuel cell anyone?).

The point I'm trying to make is don't give KillBill such a hard time for giving us small tips that if everyone did, we would save an enormous amount of gas. He works for a very large company, so at his scale, the savings add up.

[Pittenger5]

Im not giving him crap in the least, just pointing something out. Like I say, theres other ways to conserve fuel. On the other hand, I dont think any of these tips actually "conserve" fuel. I just think (and I could certainly be wrong) they are helping the consumer. If the fuel is expanded from heat, youre not necessarily using more fuel, just getting less usable fuel in your tank than if it was cooler.

[bottoj]

If there is less usable fuel in gas (element type ie liquid, gas, solid) form, then isn't it wasting product

I agree that there are plenty of other things we could be doing, such as all riding motorcycles around or researching alternative methods of energy, but are we? I think the point being made is that every drop of fuel should be cherished as it is a near non-renewable resource in which we are using at an unprecedented rate.

[Pittenger5]

I think the point Im trying to make, and Im not a science person at all, is that say we have a 1 gallon bucket of water filled to the top. If we buy it when its cold (like in the morning) we get less than the full amount cause it contracts as it gets colder. Now say we buy that gallon of water in the afternoon when its warm, theres more mass so the bucket overfills, and it seems like we get more, but do we? Of course not, the amount hasnt changed it just SEEMS like we have more. I think thats the concept. And of course when we're filling our tank that has a limited space, if we fill it when the substance is expanded it takes more space which costs us money. I think, Ive gone and confused myself. I thought I had a point, maybe not.

[bottoj]

We're making the same exact point ()! We are both agreeing upon the fact that the expansion and condensing of fuel at different temperature ranges causes a waste when escaping gas is no longer usable. Teh consumer is losing out, but so is the environment.

[Pittenger5]

Ehh I dunno, I still think otherwise, but like I say, Im not a science guy Im completely baffled.
In conclusion, save gas. Ride your motorcycle as much as possible.

[bottoj]

I'll throw down to that one

[KillBill]

I think the majority of the riders here understand the benefits to riding their bike (fuel consumption wise). The problem lies with the remaining part of the country who drive vehicles they don't need. Like the woman with the H2 Hummer who uses it solely to bring her kids to soccer practice. I've talked to more and more people who ARE realizing the impact this is having and are trading in their Hemi's for a 4 banger. Hopefully the trend will continue.

[bottoj]

SUV Nation must fall! Americans have always thought "Bigger must be better!" and we've gotten ourselves into this current fuel predicament. Most people don't realize the cars/trucks/whatever they are driving are getting horrible miles per gallon. Hell, I'm willing to bet that half the people stateside don't even care about fuel mileage. I'd say the feds have to step up and do something, but they benefit from the fuel crisis.

[Pittenger5]

I agree, Id love to downgrade, but dont have the money. But the people that are so oblivious to the problems with the hummers and all that just dont care. They're not gonna use .01% of effort to conserve which is what most of those tips require.

[Nix]

Thanks Bill!!! Makes sense.

[Bhavesh]

good to know, thanks for the info bill

but otherwise the problems here are:
1.) fossil fuels, like many other items on this earth are a limited resource...we need to use it efficiently or we'll run out
2.) gasoline engines put out carbon emissions which pollute the atmosphere and contribute to climate shift/global warming

using your motorcycle, while it doesn't eliminate the use of fossil fuels, does help...it uses gas efficiently...but you really can't make it your primary form of transportation because:

1.) it's dangerous...hands down...if another car runs a red light, you lock up the tires and dump the bike, and the base of your spine breaks after his bumper smacks into your helmet: you're dead...the sheer protection of a cage is singlehandedly safer in the case of an accident (notice I said accident: something you can't 100% prevent this from happening because they're accidents)
2.) cost: how much more economical is it? you go through tires every 8-10,000 miles, you need to get the valves adjusted every 10-15,000 miles, and if you got bigger sport bike you'd only be getting ~35-40mpg...something easily attainable with a 5-speed/4-cylinder econobox (corolla, civic, etc.)
3.) weather: it gets cold and wet here...which not only makes it uncomfortable for work, but also more dangerous as cold tires and wet tires make it more likely that you'll lose traction in 1/2 wheels that you have

that doesn't even take into consideration the cost of safety gear, rain gear, speeding tickets (speeding or not, you'll get singled out for being on a bike), insurance rates, ...all of which increase the cost of ownership for a vehicle

I say keep your bike for fun...and the occasional commute...but use, in this order, (1) your feet, (2) a bicycle (3) public transportation, (4) a carpool, and (5) or commuter car for your daily driving...forget the 15mpg SUV

but then again, why listen to me? I only get 20-25mpg in my 4x4 toyota tacoma

[KillBill]

Originally Posted by Bhavesh

good to know, thanks for the info bill

but otherwise the problems here are:
1.) fossil fuels, like many other items on this earth are a limited resource...we need to use it efficiently or we'll run out
2.) gasoline engines put out carbon emissions which pollute the atmosphere and contribute to climate shift/global warming

using your motorcycle, while it doesn't eliminate the use of fossil fuels, does help...it uses gas efficiently...but you really can't make it your primary form of transportation because:

1.) it's dangerous...hands down...if another car runs a red light, you lock up the tires and dump the bike, and the base of your spine breaks after his bumper smacks into your helmet: you're dead...the sheer protection of a cage is singlehandedly safer in the case of an accident (notice I said accident: something you can't 100% prevent this from happening because they're accidents)
2.) cost: how much more economical is it? you go through tires every 8-10,000 miles, you need to get the valves adjusted every 10-15,000 miles, and if you got bigger sport bike you'd only be getting ~35-40mpg...something easily attainable with a 5-speed/4-cylinder econobox (corolla, civic, etc.)
3.) weather: it gets cold and wet here...which not only makes it uncomfortable for work, but also more dangerous as cold tires and wet tires make it more likely that you'll lose traction in 1/2 wheels that you have

that doesn't even take into consideration the cost of safety gear, rain gear, speeding tickets (speeding or not, you'll get singled out for being on a bike), insurance rates, ...all of which increase the cost of ownership for a vehicle

I say keep your bike for fun...and the occasional commute...but use, in this order, (1) your feet, (2) a bicycle (3) public transportation, (4) a carpool, and (5) or commuter car for your daily driving...forget the 15mpg SUV

but then again, why listen to me? I only get 20-25mpg in my 4x4 toyota tacoma

You have just convinced me to move to California!!

[FireFly]

you can debate this all day. I for one, was not aware of the factors to take in to consideration when pumping gas. I think this was a good thread. I'll be pumping my gas slowly from now on[/i], avoiding stations with a tanker in the lot, and refueling in cooler climate, when possible. every little bit counts. Some gas stations keep letting out little amounts of fuel after the pump clicks off during refueling in my neck of the woods. I know it may be a substantially small amount of fuel, but I want to get every last drop i pay for at the pumps considering gas prices. Thanks for the info

[ZX-12R]

The volumetric coefficient of expansion for gasoline is: 0.000528/degree F

There is more to it than just day and night temperatures but if we assume the temperature difference in the fuel is 30 degrees and we have an average sized 15 gallon tank, we get:

15 gallons*0.000528/deg F*30 deg F = 0.2376 gallons missing from your tank

At $3/gallon that works out to about 71 cents which for me is not worth the inconvenience of specifically waiting to fill up in the morning.

[ceo012384]

Originally Posted by cras4u

Very nominal amounts of fuel savings can mean that future generations have just that much more fuel. Check out this website:

We care about future generations?

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

Ride your motorcycle as much as possible.

That I can agree with.

[ZX-12R]

I also think a lot of the savings you get from keeping your tank full is lost since you need to burn more fuel to move a heavy gas tank.

[KillBill]

Originally Posted by FireFly

you can debate this all day. I for one, was not aware of the factors to take in to consideration when pumping gas. I think this was a good thread. I'll be pumping my gas slowly from now on[/i], avoiding stations with a tanker in the lot, and refueling in cooler climate, when possible. every little bit counts. Some gas stations keep letting out little amounts of fuel after the pump clicks off during refueling in my neck of the woods. I know it may be a substantially small amount of fuel, but I want to get every last drop i pay for at the pumps considering gas prices. Thanks for the info

You're welcome ! Passing it forward

[ChrisNoF4i]

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

In conclusion, save gas. Ride your motorcycle as much as possible.

If you were really concerned with the conservation of fuel you would be using your motorcycle for transportation purposes only. And that goes for the rest of you self righteous fucks. Ride a bicycle for recreation.

[Pittenger5]

Hah, I drive a 12 mpg V8 pickup truck. Granted, I work a mile from my house and dont drive too much, but still. Im not one of the count the drops of gas people that exist out there.

[akira700]

Me thinks, these tips while scientifically sound are taken in the
abstract. They do not take into account the performance of
a car or motorcycle, its total weight.
Its like they are just talking about containers of fuel.

If you watch F1 or any form of racing you will know that fuel
is heavy and racers try to make max benefit of the time when fuel is low.
So carrying around a full tank of gas around all the
time will reduce your fuel efficiency with all the extra weight
that you carrying onboard. This factor is pretty large compared
to the savings you might get from preventing evaporation and worrying
about ambient temperature etc.

I'd hazard a guess that if you drove around with
around a half tank of gas most of the time you could save alot more
in $$ and gas than you would lose due to evaporation !

Your best bet is to get a fuel efficient form of transport.
I want a new green Ninja 250 !