[benVFR]

We talked about Cannondale Dirtbikes and ATVs a while ago, looks like they are in serious trouble and may have to file for bankruptcy.

Cannondale - Chapter 11


Sounds like their is a possibility they could emerge as a bicycle-only company afterwards, but it was kind of cool to see an american company trying to do non-cruiser bikes. It would be really disappointing if the bicycles disappear too.

Guess a bicycle business is not nearly enough $$ to try and branch out into motorcycles.

Ben

[snowborder]

They are getting KILLED by the imports in their bicycles..... They are getting KILLED by the imports in their motorcycles. They are getting KILLED also by the high end guys getting high end prices for their high end bikes.

Their best bet - outsources like the rest of American manufacturing companies and umemploy the Americans that actually make things.

Get ready for HELL ie MASSIVE UNEMPLOYMENT in this country once WTO World Trade Organizations opens up in 2005

[Rye]

That was a fear with NAFTA also. Point is, our economic infrastructure can handle these agreements because NO ONE has succesfully copied our system. And no one has as diverse a population in the world. What it does is place high demands on having a highly educated workforce. We are not sending the R&D to Malaysia, just the labor. Profits are retained. Forget the Japanese, the whole country is in chapter 11. Forget the Germans and the rest of Europe, they've got political instability everywhere and bad economic models. Cannondale bikes suck anyway. The "custom" application is long gone just like Trek. They are no more "high-end" than an aluminum huffy with Shimano goodies. The real noteworthy bikes are your Merlin, Seven, Independent, etc. They are innovators and handcrafters and don't just add components, their frames are immaculate. The concept of a Cannondale dirtbike was ill-conceived. It costs alot to develop a motor and establish channels. Ask Indian and Excelsior Henderson.

[snowborder]

maybe this should be off topic, maybe not....

What it does is place high demands on having a highly educated workforce. We are not sending the R&D to Malaysia, just the labor. Profits are retained.

This is true, but I am not sure when is the last time you studied the average education level in the U.S but it is the 10th grade. Some states have over a 20% dropout rate.

Also, China, Malaysia and India each have more highly educated people than the U.S. to the tune of 10 time the amount of people receiving degrees each year in each country.

WE ARE SENDING R&D to these countries, just ask any business. When was the last time you called tech support to any software company..... I dialed 1-800 # for Linksys this week and got someone in Indonesia who spoke perfect English. The profits are retained, yes by the company and not the employees.

Why is our unemployment at a 10 year high. Nafta, reduction of duties and WTO and it is only gonna get worse.

As you can see I am well versed in this. I am off to China in January again to share more of our knowledge with them, just to keep my job!

Japan is the least of our worries, they are worse off than us because alll their manufacutring already left. Honda, Nissan etc are all making vehicles in mainlaind Asia. Also they are more expensive than us due to high interest rates due to defaults, high umeployment.

At some point this will all level out and we'll all be even, which is the idea behind all of this, but not before our generation pays the price for all of it.

[Rye]

Snow man, you obviously have something to say about this topic (Im a bit pickled right now so plaese understand). There is a whole socialogic reason for a extreme dropout rate. Distribution of income is scewed horribly in the US. The splittting of the midddle class has been a phenomenonj for quite a few years now. Income retention occurs at the highest of levels. Your dad the laborer and mom the secretary is no longer "middle class". The average salary for a college educated worker in the bostob area is 54k a year. The is the combined level of some areas of the country. Education costs aren't commensurate with location. The kid in el paso texas still has to pay what the kid in boston has to pay for education. I will give you one thing, chips are ALL INDIA BABY! you think Intel produces pentium technology deep in the heart of Texas........nope......try Bangalore. But my point was economic and societal structure. These countries, for the lackof a better word, are FUCKED. Dictatorships, Fascists.....etc. Europe is a wildly managed region..... ahhhh whatever. I could go on, but I am more concerened with the sox getting to a word series and my bike making 140hp. Live easy, you've got little control over what happens.

[benVFR]

I don't know man... you guys sound majorly paranoid.

Yah we suck at manufacturing. But tell me, where is the chip DESIGN coming out of India, China, etc... Intel, AMD, Motorola, and IBM are way ahead of the pack and the important work is being done in the US. India does a great job with computer science too, they graduate a lot more CS people than the US, but I'm not sure they're absolute best is any better than our absolute best. We certainly hold our own in the research areas.

So they (the Japanese) kick our ass at designing motors, etc.. No question about that. Too bad for Cannondale. Maybe they should have bought motors from Honda, Suzuki, whatever, like some of the small European sportbike makers, it certainly would have been safer.

And I'd still rather have a Trek or a Cannondale than any Merlin, Seven, or especially IF. Other than supporting a local business I don't see the point of that. They are not ahead of Cannondale in tech, and especially not in performance. Trek moreso than Cannondale, but nothing those small companies have comes close to Trek's OCLV stuff. Those guys just enjoy a good reputation cause they're local and there are a lot of bike snobs in the area, they're not producing superior bikes that help major pro teams win major races. Weld appearance (notice I said appearance, not quality) has very little to do with the quality of a bicycle frame. They don't win on stiffness, weight, or reliability, and they aren't the ones coming up with amazing new suspension linkages, etc.. for mountain bikes.

Oh well, this is way off topic now... maybe someone could move it for us?

Ben

[Rye]

I agree, life is too short and we have little control outside of ourselves. I keep up on issues but I can't let itconsume me to the extent the media wants it to. I would rather watch 2-wheel Tuesday and yell at the Pats on sundays.