[-jro-]

Hey folks- When I was at a track day a couple of months ago I got totally hammered on for using the rear brake. Its a force of habit! And also my old clunker vintage bike probably needs the extra stopping power. But anyway, the instructor told me the rear brake causes more trouble and I need to break the habit and not touch it if I can help it. So two questions really- 1) do any of you racers ever touch the rear brake? and 2) What about the rear brake on the street? I mean, if you aren't touching it on a track, why then on the street? Help me out here guys (and sorry if this is a repost or something....just kindly let me know if it is and redirect me thanks

[OreoGitorio]

let's look at it this way...

Traction depends partly on weight.

The weight distribution when you're at neutral throttle is roughly 50/50 front to rear.
When you begin apply the brakes it begins to transition onto the front tire, reducing the amount of weight on the rear.
When you apply the brakes even more it REALLY begins to transition to the front tire, further reducing the amount of weight on the rear tire.

So basically, the harder you use the brakes, the more braking power comes from the front brake.

So...when KILLING the front brakes it becomes very easy to lock up the rear if you use the rear brekes... The rear brake pedal is just one more thing to try & modulate in a very informationally intense environment. Based on that, no, I hardly use the rear brake on the track because I'm going from full throttle to full brakes very quickly. I'm also downshifting, turning & doing countless calculations inside my very, very small brain.

With that said, there are uses for the rear brake.... Like keeping the front wheel from going over your head in turn 5, settling the front just before entering the braking zone, etc... but I'm not well versed, nor well trained in it's uses for me to benefit from using it... there's a much greater chance of me locking it up or it distracting me from other things that I'm doing & increasing my lap times than using it properly to lower my lap times.

[hammadown]

Long story short, the rear brake ican get you in more trouble than anything else. To my knowledge nobody really uses the rear to scrub speed because under heavy braking all the weight is shifted front, so there is limited traction left on the rear which increases the likelihood of locking it up. Some racers use the rear, but it is an advanced technique and I wouldnt worry about it right now. As for the street I kind of do use both, but thats because my brake light only works with the rear pedal I have seen people argue both sides on the street, and Ill just let them argue.

Edit: oreo basically said everything above already

One way to stop yourself from grabbing rear brake is to adjust your pedal far down so even if your foot goes to it, you aren't putting much if any pressure on the brake.

Others can speak in more detail, but I think thats the long and short of it

[ceo012384]

On a modern sportbike, this is about all your rear brake is good for:

[Puppet]

In a race, my right foot stays locked and I don't touch the rear brake until I'm back in the pit area (or unless I'm covering it doing a wheelie after the race ).

On the other hand I use it ALL the time on the street. I use both brakes to stop the bike, however, in a panic braking situation, I use less rear than just a normal stop because with heavier braking up front, as Pete already mentioned, it's easier to lock up. I also use it to modulate my stop when coming to a light or just to keep the bike moving slowly without putting my feet down because it doesn't upset the bike as much as going on and off the front brake.

[bergs]

Rear brake = highside

Unless you know exactly how and when to use the rear brake, just stay off it all together.

Get in the habit of setting your entrance speed using decel and FRONT brake to start off. As you gain more experience you'll find you can actually go pretty deep in a turn on the front brake alone....don't try it just yet. First thing is to break your habit of using the rear brake.

[banzairx7]

I use the rear on the street but not for braking really. My bike has some wicked engine braking. In the first few weeks I had it I almost got rear ended twice. Bike slows down real quick with the throttle closed and no brake light comes on. So I use it out of habit to now when I let off the throttle so people know Im slowing down.

I can see on the track where you could get into more trouble then its worth.

[-jro-]

ok....so I wonder, why are rear brakes on any racebikes at all then?? Why don't you just pull them? And I'm even worse with it on the street... I use it all the time and sometimes I even catch myself using it before applying the front brake I dunno...I guess I feel like if I grab a handful of front brake I'm going to end up in a very unwanted nose endo or something.

[bergs]

Originally Posted by -jro-

I dunno...I guess I feel like if I grab a handful of front brake I'm going to end up in a very unwanted nose endo or something.

For the most part, unless you pump the suspension, you won't endo.

Have tried to duplicate panic-braking? Doesn't sound it.....not dogging you but I'd put money on the fact that you haven't even tried to see what the fronts have to offer for stopping power.

If you stab the front brakes there's a better chance of the wheel locking rather than the bike standing up on you.

FWIW you pretty much have to "try" to make the bike stoppie...it's not going to just flip up on you if you hit the front brakes.

In all my years of street riding it hasn't happened to me so far and I've been in some hard-braking situations....like "front-tire-howling-crapping-my-pants-holy-shiiiiiiitttttt-I'm-not-gonna-make-it" braking situations.......no surprise stoppies so far.

[GixerJockey]

Originally Posted by OreoGitorio

let's look at it this way...


With that said, there are uses for the rear brake.... Like keeping the front wheel from going over your head in turn 5,

Let's be honest here Pete. There isn't an EX on God's green earth that's going to send the front wheel over your head in T5... Or any other planet, for that matter...

[Doc]

Originally Posted by -jro-

ok....so I wonder, why are rear brakes on any racebikes at all then?? Why don't you just pull them? And I'm even worse with it on the street... I use it all the time and sometimes I even catch myself using it before applying the front brake I dunno...I guess I feel like if I grab a handful of front brake I'm going to end up in a very unwanted nose endo or something.

Sounds like you started a very bad habit when you started riding. The front will not make you endo (unless you want it to) I bet the front will break loose WAY before you endo.

The Front brake is approx 75% of your braking power if not more. The rear is only usefull for about 25% or less.

It would be smart to try and break the habit.

Do I use the rear on my racebike?.. Rarely. Do I use it on the street? All the time.

[DucDave]

A couple years ago I crashed in a race and broke my front brake lever. No problem I thought, I'll just get back to the pits using my rear brake. Problem was, I had never used it before and my foot couldnt freekin' find it and I almost crashed again...

On the track I am no where near advanced enough to make good use of the rear brake.

On the street I use both, without even thinking about it, all the time.

But I use a GP shift on the track and regular on the street so I'm probably a bad example...!

[Cheese-GSXR]

In any real stopping situation, it's just trouble.

2 rear brake uses:

1. If you're carrying a passenger, the rear brake is usually a more gentle stop for them as long as you have miles of time to use it.

2. If you're doing extremely slow maneuvers like u-turns or creeping in traffic, adding throttle, releasing the clutch and riding the rear brake can steady the bike.

[OreoGitorio]

Originally Posted by GixerJockey

Let's be honest here Pete. There isn't an EX on God's green earth that's going to send the front wheel over your head in T5... Or any other planet, for that matter...

I dunno man, I bet I could get it to wheelie on the moon

[OreoGitorio]

Originally Posted by -jro-

ok....so I wonder, why are rear brakes on any racebikes at all then?? Why don't you just pull them? And I'm even worse with it on the street... I use it all the time and sometimes I even catch myself using it before applying the front brake I dunno...I guess I feel like if I grab a handful of front brake I'm going to end up in a very unwanted nose endo or something.

Ok, so get rid of the rear brake.... Now what are you gonna do if you lose your front brakes going into turn 3?

(it's happened before... and it's not good )

[OreoGitorio]

Originally Posted by Doc

The Front brake is approx 75% of your braking power if not more. The rear is only usefull for about 25% or less.

What if your rear tire is off the ground?

The percentage of braking power that your front posesses is proportionate to the amount of front brake used.

Use em like a sunovabitch & get the rear tire just skimming on the pavment & you're lookin at 99.9999%

[Doc]

Originally Posted by OreoGitorio

What if your rear tire is off the ground?

Hence the 25% OR LESS.... :

[wookie]

Another use for the rear brake at the track: if you ride into the grass ...

On the street I use the rear brake on the Triple only in parking lots. I doubt I've ever hit the rear brake going over 15 mph.

However, with the sportster (which has a heavy rear end) I use both brakes. Somehow my mind just knows which bike I'm on.

I have skidded the rear wheel on the Harley in a panic situation...but the rear brake really does provides 25-30% of the braking in somewhat hard braking situations. I've decided I'll take my chances with locking up the wheel for the extra stopping power. And, I hope at this point I've trained myself not to over apply the rear brake....

[Doc]

Originally Posted by wookie

The rear brake is great if you ride into the grass ...

+1

[wingerdor]

Originally Posted by Doc

The Front brake is approx 75% of your braking power if not more. The rear is only usefull for about 25% or less.

Sniff, Sniff...I smell a new RiderCoach!

[Doc]

Originally Posted by wingerdor

Sniff, Sniff...I smell a new RiderCoach!

Is it that obvious?

[ceo012384]

Originally Posted by Doc

The Front brake is approx 75% of your braking power if not more. The rear is only usefull for about 25% or less.

I know you're a racer and MSF ridercoach Doc.... but this statement is laughable at best. We're talking about sportbikes here.

If you're using the front brake correctly, the rear brake is practically worthless. The front brake commands 99.999% of your braking power. The only part of the braking process where it does ANYTHING is in the millisecond time period it takes the rider to get the front brake to its limit, during which time there is still a small amount of load on the rear tire.

To me, I'd say it's completely worthless... because modulating it to maintain traction to get that extra 0.1% of braking power uses way too much of my '10 dollars of attention', as Keith Code would say.

Again, if you use the front correctly, the rear is worthless. See?:



Rear brake is for scrubbing speed up to the apex in corners (advanced technique I know little about), low speed manuevers, and gravel/grass/etc.




edit: btw... Kevin Schwantz once said he used the rear brake three times. He knows it was three because that's how many times he wrecked.

[nt650hawk]

I skip my rear tire all the time into T3. Rear brake does nothing for me. Who got that picture of me?

One way to reduce the habit of locking the rear brake is to introduce some air into the line (softer peddle). This will soften the braking application when applying the brakes if you are having a hard time breaking the habit.

On the street my front pads have 50% meat remaining while my rear needs to be replaced at 20,000

[-jro-]

heya- yea I really need to kick the habit. I'll have to think hard and really pay attention to it, its practically second nature now. I definitely developed the habit very early, I remember in my first year riding I had to stop quickly and I grabbed a fistful of front brake, and I stopped alright- and dropped the bike hah. Ever since then I've been rear braking because it obviously doesn't stop you as fast, and creates this false sense of security in me that I'm not going to drop my bike or have any front brake mishaps again. I think I need a 12 step plan to get off rear braking or something...

[Crash Dummy Denno]

Originally Posted by GixerJockey

Let's be honest here Pete. There isn't an EX on God's green earth that's going to send the front wheel over your head in T5... Or any other planet, for that matter...