[oreo_n2]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
I've never figured out why twin cylinder bikes are so poplular. I've ridden a few (Ducati, Harley, BMW, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda, Triumph) and while they typically have a nice flat power delivery, the problem I have with blah blah blah...

well i aint ridden too many of the big inline 4's and the new ones supposedly make pretty good torque and power from the ground up.... fuck, some of the dyno curves from the new 600's show peaks similar to my falco.


but man, every time i fire the falco up i get chills. and i much enjoy the *flat* but predictable and awesome amount of power i get delivered to the rear wheel all the way from 2k to redline at 10.5k. i think it falls into a realm of argument comparable to the classic muscle car vs rice car debate. i like the power on tap. i like not having to shift all over the damn place to pass and i like that the performance doesn't change at all when christina is on the back and we can ride for hours on end!!! Plus it has pretty sweet brakes too and its comfy and well the list goes on. i love it. *Disclaimer* When she is running right*

And i recently got a nice look at v-twins gallore pulling away from everyone under the sun when in the straights at loudon. (well except maybe degsy) And when the experts got on there, they actually could keep some corner speed so they didn't give the spots up right away in the turns.

can you tell i am biased towards the v-twin mafia?!

man you really want to try out a sweet v-twin... check out TLRman's ( i heard he has a bit of bike whore in him too ), i aspire to get my falco to pull as hard as his TLR and turn in like his too.

[Stoneman]

I'd be happy to let ya take MY TL-R for a spin too! You'll find it's not ALL that different from Mark's. And the next time he comes up, I'll have HIS map in MINE too! Whooo hooo...

[Degsy]

Originally posted by eddysteady
I have a 99 Yami R1, My second Bike Next Season Will Be an RC-51, I love that Bike

Mine is for sale, $7500 with a ton of extras and only 6k miles on the bike.

Degs

[NHViffer]

Triple, baby! Engine characteristics are between I-4 and V-2, simliar to V-4 only with a lot more poop in the new Daytona 955i. At first I didn't think that I would like the sound, but I love it! I am considering a Carbon Fiber pipe, as I understand that it makes that exhaust note really good.

[Honclfibr]

What does a triple look like? Is it a single vertical piston, with the other two at a 30 degree angle on either side? Like a W, kinda?
Or is it something different.

Not sure I really understand V-twins. How is a 90 degree V different from a horizontally opposed twin? 90 degree V would mean both are offset at 45 degrees from 0, right? So one would be at 9 o'clock and the other at 3 o'clock, which seems to me like a horizontally opposed. Maybe I don't understand engine configurations at all...

[beet]

[NHViffer]

Triumph triples are inline 3, looks like an I-4 minus 1. I believe that the crank pins are at 120 apart, which makes it nice and smooth because it is naturally pretty well balanced.

[Matt K]

90degrees between the 2 pistons, they're arranged like an L stood on it's point. a horizontally opposed engine has the cylinders set at 180degrees from eachother. I think the triples are mostly inline.

[Matt K]

damn, those were some fast replys

[oreo_n2]

yep and the aprilias are seperated by 60 degrees. the setup has something to do with what the engine engineers were smoking on the particular days when they thought these engine configurations up. Oh and some higher order harmonic vibration effects come into play as well. the 90 degree twins some how naturally cancel out higher order vibrations while the aprilia motors actually have something else in there (Counterbalancer) rotating around to cancel out the 2nd order harmonics i believe.
then the opposed beemers... who knows, their just weird.

[beet]

Originally posted by oreo_n2
yep and the aprilias are seperated by 60 degrees. the setup has something to do with what teh egine egineers were smoking the days they thought these thigns up and some higher order harmonic vibration effects come into play as well. the 90 degree twins some how naturally cancel out higher order vibrations while the aprilia motors actually have something else in there (Counterbalancer) rotating around to cancel out the 2nd order harmonics i believe.
then the opposed beemers... who knows, their just weird.

[twrayinma]

cookie, are YOU smoking something today?
or did you just have a 3-martini lunch, hold the lunch?

you're typing funny today. almost beetesque.

[Matt K]

you in the mood to learn some shit?

clicky

This is a GREAT discussion of various engine configurations and the affect they have on vibration/smoothness, etc. It's also very accessible, not all technical stuff, very easy to understand

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by Matt K
you in the mood to learn some shit?

clicky

This is a GREAT discussion of various engine configurations and the affect they have on vibration/smoothness, etc. It's also very accessible, not all technical stuff, very easy to understand

Looks like exactly what I was looking for, thanks for the link.

[beet]

Originally posted by twrayinma
cookie, are YOU smoking something today?
or did you just have a 3-martini lunch, hold the lunch?

you're typing funny today. almost beetesque.

[stoinkythepig]

Engine balance is a difficult thing to understand. It all stems from the fact that the engine turns linear motion into rotational motion.

The piston moves in a solely linear fashion, just back and forth or up and down. The connecting rod moves in many directions and the crank can only rotate. The crank has weights to offset the piston and connecting rod mass. That weight helps balance the engine best when it is exactly opposite the piston position (bottom dead center and top dead center). At any other crank position the counterweight causes an imbalance which is worst 90 degrees from BDC or TDC. This is a primary imbalance and it's awful on one cylinder engines. There is a secondary imbalnce too but the primary imbalance is so bad you wouldn't even notice the secondary imbalance on a one cylinder engine. A 90 degree V-twin solves the primary imbalance problem by placing another piston 90 degrees to the first so the weight can do double duty. Doing this gives the engine perfect primary balance. There is still an imbalance at 45 degrees before and after BDC and TDC and that's the secondary imbalance. Since it occurs 4 times per revolution it's at twice the frequency of the primary imbalance and that's what you feel when you feel a 90 degree V-twin or IL4 vibrate. Inline 4 engines (which have perfect primary balance due to the counterweights balancing each other at 90 degrees from TDC or BDC) have the same problem with secondary imbalance. A conterweight spinning at double the engine speed can help cancel the secondary imbalance.

3, 6, and 12 cylinder engines have excellent primary and secondary balance because the imbalances are all out of sync with eachother due to the 120 degree crank spacing. Drive a BMW 6 or 12 cylinder engine car sometime and feel how smooth the engine is. I have never ridden a triple before but I bet they don't vibrate much.

Opposed twin engines like a BMW boxer solve the primary balance problem by having the two counterweights that cancel each other's mass at 90 degrees from TDC or BDC (like an IL4). They still have secondary balance issues. The big disadvantage to them is the extra mass of the extra counterweight on the crank. That makes them slower to rev compared to a V-twin.

There's a whole host of other variables that come into play but that's the simplest way I can explain it.

[NHViffer]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
I have never ridden a triple before but I bet they don't vibrate much.

Well, looks like we'll have to fix that. I've been wanting to ride a ZX-9 for a while. Too bad your gone this weekend.

[stoinkythepig]

Sounds like a fun trade. All I've read about the latest Daytonas likens them to 9Rs. Not up to par with R1s and GSXR1000s but great (and comfortable) bikes anyway.

[oreo_n2]

Originally posted by Matt K
you in the mood to learn some shit?

clicky

This is a GREAT discussion of various engine configurations and the affect they have on vibration/smoothness, etc. It's also very accessible, not all technical stuff, very easy to understand

woo hoo. that was a good clicky. it made a lot more stuff make sense. i heard about the balancing stuff, but couldn't actually imagine what it looked like... that was neat. those VR and W configurations are really cool. i never knew what was going on in there to make them special. now i know. and knowing is half the battle.
can you imagine the ugly ass trig that went into figuring out all the angles and shit for this puppy?!?! Wow. it blows my mind. i am glad we have computers to do this shit for us.



oh and t... go fuck a chicken.

[NHViffer]

Originally posted by stoinkythepig
Sounds like a fun trade. All I've read about the latest Daytonas likens them to 9Rs. Not up to par with R1s and GSXR1000s but great (and comfortable) bikes anyway.

Power is not too far down from the R1, right in there with the CBR954 though. The killer for the Daytona is the weight. '02 and up are lighter, but not near the jap bikes still. That's okay, I like mine with a little meat on the bones!

I added a set of bar risers a couple of weeks ago that make the Daytona very comfy, but do take away some of the sporting feel. But, hey I probably won't have as many track miles as street miles by a long shot. With the really low bars I found that I just could not turn my head around well to check blind spot, or where joining other roads at a Y-type intersection. It made me a little nervous. Maybe I'm just not as flexible as I once was, or it could be my massive neck and shoulder muscles

[stoinkythepig]

That's some good stuff. Turns out I was wrong about the secondary imbalance on boxer twins. Wust be a fore-aft or torsional imbalance since they sure do vibrate.

Honda's GP V5 bike is like an unbalanced V4 with the 5th cylinder acting as a counterbalance. Pretty slick idea if you ask me.

[stoinkythepig]

With the really low bars I found that I just could not turn my head around well to check blind spot, or where joining other roads at a Y-type intersection.

I have the same problem. It's not that I can't do it, it's just that it sucks. No plans to put higher bars on mine though. I like the ergos for everything but that one aspect.

My 9R ain't exactly light but neither am I.

[krosbonz]

Originally posted by NHViffer
I added a set of bar risers a couple of weeks ago that make the Daytona very comfy, but do take away some of the sporting feel. But, hey I probably won't have as many track miles as street miles by a long shot. With the really low bars I found that I just could not turn my head around well to check blind spot, or where joining other roads at a Y-type intersection. It made me a little nervous. Maybe I'm just not as flexible as I once was, or it could be my massive neck and shoulder muscles [/b]

Considering you went with the risers, did you consider the ST before buying the Daytona? Little low on H/P but better ergos.

[NHViffer]

Originally posted by krosbonz
Considering you went with the risers, did you consider the ST before buying the Daytona? Little low on H/P but better ergos.

You said it...low on H/P - besides I got a smokin' deal on the Daytona. Now with the bar risers it wheelies even easier