[ftrain]

So I closed on the house last Thursday. One of my first project is going to install a new roof on my detached garage, update the electric inside the garage with a 110/220 outlets, insulate, and heat it.

I am debating about wood, electric, or gas to heat the garage. I think gas would be the best route. How do I figure out how many btu gas heater I will need?

I want the heater to be a permanent installation in this detached workshop. There is also a green house attached to this building that I am also considering heating. It might be nice to consider a furnace that has two zones. I am not sure how many BTU’s I need. I am sure it is a simple formula that I have yet to find on the net. I plan to use this heater in the workshop where cars and motorcycles may be painted inside the garage. So I do not want to blow myself up.

I think gas is the best route. There are two types I am considering. Either a Hanging Garage Heater or a Garage furnace.

I found this Modine unit for sale. 100,000 btu PAE100ac hanging unit. Purchased new in 1990 for a 600 s/foot garage. Bought so big cause it was a had to go special. Only used when in garage so very little use. Also had it set up at a lower pressure so it would last forever. Setup for propane but will do gas. Works great and in excellent shape. $250.00 and i will throw in tstat and vent piping. switching over to a closet unit.

You think this is a good deal? I am not sure if it is a internal combustion unit though. I can not find any data sheet on it. This is a concern since I want to paint inside the garage and do not want to blow myself up.

Any comment or other recommendations?

Mike

[beet]

is how 2 do it cheap & easy

[ftrain]

Oil cheaper then gas? Or are you saying a oil burner that burns your motor oil? Hmm never thought about that one.

[Honclfibr]

We use those small threaded burners attached to portable propane tanks. Mounted to 50 pound tanks they'll run for hours and hours, and they heat up the place fast.

[Stoneman]

Generically speaking, there's a formula they use that involves the total area to be heated (x-something)...

[scootertrash]

Congrats on the house !
One consideration for heating the garage is a chimney. Depending on the layout, the cost could be something to think about. If you go with a ventless gas type heater, you minimize the venting costs.
One thing my neighbor did, and I may convert to, is use a refurbished mobile home heater. I think it cost him around $300 total for a refuribshed heater and small tank (40 gallon ?) to hold the home heating oil (#2 oil) It heats up quickly, and he used a simple metal chimney to vent it. I guess a propane setup would be about the same also.

[beet]

Originally posted by ftrain
Oil cheaper then gas? Or are you saying a oil burner that burns your motor oil? Hmm never thought about that one.

do have waist oil burners 2 high cost
but #2 gives the most btus for the $
set the t-stat come back in 15 mins warm & nice if you can beat it

[hessogood]

congrats on the house train.

http://www.littlegreenhouse.com/heat-calc.shtml

I know it says greenhouse calculator, but that should give you an idea.

[Stoneman]

FWIW, when we end up heating our garage, we're going with a direct vent heater. Most likely propane. I'd prefer natural, but we don't have it available to us yet...

But I think beet's right. You get more BTU for your $$ with erl. Propane only burns at like, half the BTU of erl (if that)...

[ftrain]

Jay that is a cool site. Good info since I plan to heat 1 or 2 of my green houses. I am moving the rest of my stuff Saturday morning. We should be done by 12 so if you want to stop by around noon for some food let me know.

Mike


I updated my first post in this thread with more info so look back at the first post.

[Stoneman]

In my limited experience, hanging heaters aren't nearly as efficient as a floor model. We have a hanging heater in our pressroom, and it doesn't heat for shit. I have a coupla friends that went with hangers too, due to space limitations. Neither are very happy with it's inefficencies...

If ya have the room, I'd go with a floor model personally. All things being equal, I'd say you get more heat for you money...

[snowborder]

Oil heat Heating Oil contains 138,690 BTU's per gallon.

Propane has 91,500 BTU's per gallon; 1.52 gallons equals the heat of one gallon of heating oil.

Electric Electricity has 3,413 BTU's per kilowatt hour (kwh); 40.6 kwh equals the heat content of one gallon of heating oil.

So lets see at best an oil furnace burns at 86% efficiency at $1.20 per gallon. = 119,200 BTU per
100,000 BTU per $1.00

Propane furnace can operate up 85% effiencient for a Rinnai
Propane at a $1.30 per gallon average.... = 59,100 BTU per $1.00

Electric at $.16 per kw in good old NH = or 6.25 kws per $1.00 21330 btu per $1.00

Oil expensive install unless you tie into an existing FHW system and long term paybacks are quicker Unless you install a Toyo system which is equivalent to a Rinnai in efficiency.

Propane somewhat expensive to install long term paybacks are longer.

Electric really cheap and easy to install no payback.

http://www.warmthforless.com/toyotomi.oil.html 90% efficient

[ftrain]

snowboarder you rock! Wher did you find this info from?

Can I have 1 oil storage tank and run a seperate supply lines for the house furnance, green house, and garage or do I need 3 seperate oil tanks?

Mike

[Suf Daddy]

Snowboarder got this one ON.

Oil most BTU's
Gas, then Electric

Hanging heaters don't work well because heat rises and the floor stays cold.
Convection.

I'd say Oil, maybe a hybrid that burns waste oil.
Since your buildings a stand alone, I'd thin the fuel oil out in the winter with some Kerosine. Fill the tank in the summer when Oil cheapest.

Those heaters snowboarder posted are like the Runaiis (sp?) they use in snowcountry. Those suckers are SUPER efficient and sometimes two will do a whole condo. USUALLY direct vent. Short pipe out the back of the unit through the exterior 2x4 or 6 wall. Easy install.

My project is going to blend some solar panels and copper pipe in the concrete floor as radiant heat. Plumbing supply houses stock 20' copper.

Insulate the building too.........especially around the doors.
-Suf Daddy

[wastedincome420]

waste oil burners are very expensive... and then there is the problem of storage of waste oil etc... not worth it unless you generate a lot of CLEAN waste oil.... even then they are not as efficient as a regular oil furnace.

eventually when I get to the point where I am putting heat in my garage/barn, I will probably go with 2 heat sources, one, a homemade stove that will burn scrap wood & waste oil. and a small gas or oil furnace..

[beet]

Originally posted by wastedincome420
waste oil burners are very expensive... and then there is the problem of storage of waste oil etc... not worth it unless you generate a lot of CLEAN waste oil.... even then they are not as efficient as a regular oil furnace.

eventually when I get to the point where I am putting heat in my garage/barn, I will probably go with 2 heat sources, one, a homemade stove that will burn scrap wood & waste oil. and a small gas or oil furnace..

[beet]

Originally posted by ftrain
snowboarder you rock! Wher did you find this info from?

Can I have 1 oil storage tank and run a seperate supply lines for the house furnance, green house, and garage or do I need 3 seperate oil tanks?

Mike

in nh i think its better cause its not on the bottom of the tank water it makes a loop

[wastedincome420]

Originally posted by beet
tranny flujid works best

that's what I'm told by a friend who owns a tranny shop

[double agent]

2 words WOOD STOVE done!

[Suf Daddy]

1 WOOD
2 STOVE
3....done

BITCH! - Suf Daddy

Originally posted by double agent
2 words WOOD STOVE done!

[lee955i]

This is all very interesting as I have a 16X24 former garage that i'm converting into a "Bike Shop" and am trying to figure out this exact same thing. Leaning toward a small wood or pellet stove (with a blower) at the moment but keep the info coming .
Cheers, Lee S.

[double agent]

its late 2-3 who's counting?

[RandyO]

wood is inconvenient... I am only conbsidering it cause I always have scraps to burn... if you have to buy wood it is expensive and inefficient, requires too much fuel storage area and too much work.

a pellet stove might be a reasonable alternative.. an employee of mine heats his home with a pellet furnace.

[cyberxen]

I'm planning on putting a toyotomi oil burner in my garage. It's easy to install yourself and there is no exposed flame, which is good if you're using spray paint or any other volatile chemicals in your garage.
They burn kerosene or #1 fuel oil and only need a 3" vent pipe. There's a dealer at an auto garage in Leominster, he uses one to heat his bay as well. He quoted me about $1000 for one.

For right now I have a 220v heater that fits in a 2x4 stud cavity (Home Depot), works great but $$ ouch to run all the time.

[snowborder]

updated for today's pricing:

Oil furnace burns at 86% efficiency at $3.00 per gallon. = 119,200 BTU per gallon =
34,170 BTU per $1.00

Propane furnace can operate up 85% effiencient for a Rinnai
Propane at a $3.00 per gallon average.... 91,500 BTU's per gallon =
25925 BTU per $1.00

Electric at $.20 per kw or 5 kws per $1.00 in good old NH 3,413 BTU's per kilowatt hour (kwh)
17,065 btu per $1.00