[bigred875]

no, cliff notes

I had a great time even though I’m fat, out of shape and slow lol….. I started off in B, did 2 follow the leader sessions then an open session. Only got 4 laps in on the session and it seemed like another follow the leader session, no one was passing or going very fast so I asked to move to A. Talked with Dan(legalspeed) and asked him to help me with some body form issues I was having. I feel like a monkey fucking a football when going right and wanted to sort that out. He followed me for 2 laps then I was to follow him for 2….first lap I was behind a motard taking it easy so the tires would heat up the next lap I turned it up a bit…. Pulled into the hot pit and dan to talk about it…he goes out and I follow…lol I did a good job keeping up for the first lap but by the second lap I was getting really fatigued. I took 2 a wider then I should have and both tires slid a decent amount, went into 3 just passed 4, got he bike upright and got on the gas…about when I crested the hill the rear spun then was all over the place when slowing to hit the bowl. I couldn’t settle the bike by the turn in point causing me to drift WAY wide and completely blow the turn…that sucked bad..thank god no one was trying to pass me.. The rear tire was really greasy…I promptly pitted in…..had a little discussion with a couple people including Mr. Kates and it seem it was probably a combo of too much pressure and hitting 3-4 the wrong way and the sudden burst of power on a liter bike is enough to spin it up. I dropped some pressure and back to the B group and was relatively fine the rest of the day except for the rear tire talking to me a little but in 2 and the bowl. After lunch I was getting fatigued really fast…I was drinking water all day but it didn’t seem to be enough or something. I brought a gallon and finished it b4 2…. The weather and the fact my leathers are not perf’d probably didn’t help.

Ok, now for my review of LAPS. The guys running it seem like very nice guys, approachable and genuinely want to make sure you have the best time as possible. That said, there are a couple things that I think should have gone a bit smoother or done differently.

The riders meeting in the morning was a bit long winded and confusing. The 2 leaders had a debate in front of the class about the flags. The was prompted from the incident at the last trackday. I feel any discussions with the management team should have been don before the meeting started. Then there was still some more confusion about the flags. They initially said 2 flags red and yellow, then 3 yellow, red, and black…then as soon as we walked out of the meeting someone said something about a checkered flag over the loud speaker.

I think 2 follow the leader sessions in B is overkill. If riders want to do the second one it should be optional IMO.

After the first open session the riders were called into the media center and the instructors to the tech booth. After sitting in the hot poorly vented room for awhile they started to go over inside passing rules, which was covered to death in the morning riders meeting. This seemed to go on forever…. +1 on Eugene’s comments, this meeting was painful to put it nicely. Between this meeting and not riding during lunch there was 2 hours during the day with no one on the track.

All in all I think everything went smoothly, no safety issues, minimal crashes...I had a great time.

[sxlova07]

totally agree with the long meetings and the 2 FTL session....took away alot of the time that we could have been on the track

btw it was nice meeting you yesterday....didnt realize it was you till Dennis said something

[bigred875]

same here

[Trackday Guru]

Thanks for your input guys, we certainly value any input you want to give.

FYI - the second FTL session was put in place as a trial in light of an incident that occured at our 7/17 TD to help eliminate any confusion and reinforce the Pit-in/Pit-out proceedures.

And the second rider's meeting in the afternoon was to address some of the feedback we were receiving about inside passing, which was not allowed anytime, anywhere, in any group, and was discussed in the morning Rider's meeting. And you should probably note that it was a rider who requested we address this issue again because they had been passed on the inside by 3 riders the previous session.

Kevin and I also had been recieving some concerning feedback regarding the way some of our instructors/control riders were riding, and we decided that for the safety of everyone on the track it should be dealt with right then and there.

I apologize if it was uncomfortable for anyone to endure a second meeting regarding safety, but I am simply not willing to risk an unsafe situation for everyone when it's obvious that if it's not dealt with immediately it will get out of control with a potentially serious outcome.

Sometimes a lack of action is the worst enemy.

[bigred875]

i had a great time all things considered....i hope i didnt sound like an ass in my review...

[OreoGitorio]

Originally Posted by bigred875

i had a great time all things considered....i hope i didnt sound like an ass in my review...

puhleeze... when DON'T you sound like an ass?

[bigred875]

:

[vt625]

I'll add my thoughts to the thread...
I was in Group B, and have attended trackdays and open practice sessions previously.

Morning meeting:
A little disorganized as stated above. It wouldn't have been as bad if I hadn't been wearing my leathers... Sure was warm in there! As I recall it didn't start all that promptly either. Too many people still in the garage and not on the ball getting to the meeting. Correct me if my memory fails.

FTL sessions:
Two sessions did seem a bit excessive, but I do understand the reason. I was surprised that the second session speed was so low. It was only marginally faster than the first session. My understanding of the C group is that the speed ramped up very fast - almost too fast - in that second session. The B second session seemed a bit confused as well - It seemed like we weren't sure if it was all FTL or just a couple laps, or what. There were people waving and my group even pulled into hot pits for a stop and go. Was it because the B group was so full and the track was a little packed and we were trying to make room?

Misc:
One thing that always bothers me about this type of trackday is that so many people seem to think they are there to race. Now, I understand and even want to go fast, but if you can't pass for 1 more corner it isn't the end of the world. No matter what you don't go home as champion...

So the part about it that bothers me is the people that ride fast bikes (read: not a motard like me ) will ride around the track at a slower pace than others (which is fine - not the bad part yet) and I am a nice guy and not stuffing them into a corner to get around them, then when they finally get to the straight(s) they pin it and stay in front in the safest place to pass on the track. Anyone else know what I am talking about? You can tell if you are holding people up, and if you are, you should let them pass when appropriate. Am I wrong? I know I can pit and let them go, blah, blah, blah, but then I lose basically a full lap out of the session and all that needs to happen is for slower riders in a group to not treat the straights like drag strips. 2 --> 3 is a good example of this. So I wonder if it might be worth mentioning this in the B and C groups at future days? Your call guys, just my $.02.

Also passing on the front straight - can't we allow left or right as long as it is clean? Maybe that allows for too much judgement call. But the problem is still with certain riders that are "on the line" even though they aren't at full pace, and leaving no room to the right between them and the wall to pass.

All in all, it was a great day and a well run event. The pricing is great, and things went smoothly with very few gripes. I liked having the vendors and tech help around. A very "active" event even off the track!

[chrome600]

Originally Posted by OreoGitorio

puhleeze... when DON'T you sound like an ass?

You must know Red well or at the least heard him talk

[sxlova07]

Originally Posted by vt625

The B second session seemed a bit confused as well - It seemed like we weren't sure if it was all FTL or just a couple laps, or what. There were people waving and my group even pulled into hot pits for a stop and go. Was it because the B group was so full and the track was a little packed and we were trying to make room?

yeah I saw that and didnt get it....I do think it was because the track was full in the B group

Originally Posted by vt625

Also passing on the front straight - can't we allow left or right as long as it is clean? Maybe that allows for too much judgement call. But the problem is still with certain riders that are "on the line" even though they aren't at full pace, and leaving no room to the right between them and the wall to pass.

+1

[bigred875]

Originally Posted by chrome600

You must know Red well or at the least heard him talk

fuck you squid!

[Zero]

Originally Posted by bigred875

no, cliff notes

The riders meeting in the morning was a bit long winded and confusing. The 2 leaders had a debate in front of the class about the flags. The was prompted from the incident at the last trackday. I feel any discussions with the management team should have been don before the meeting started. Then there was still some more confusion about the flags. They initially said 2 flags red and yellow, then 3 yellow, red, and black?hen as soon as we walked out of the meeting someone said something about a checkered flag over the loud speaker.

I think 2 follow the leader sessions in B is overkill. If riders want to do the second one it should be optional IMO.

You will only see two flags here today... Red, Yellow and Black.

My take is that after the 1st event saftey was overly stressed. Personally my 2nd FTL was a disaster. Maybe I missed something but I had no idea it was a FTL and even after I realized it the execution was aweful. There was no falling back into line and basically the FTL turned into a large train and in the end it was a huge waste of time. To the point that I would have pulled off if it lasted another lap or two. Then we had one on track experience followed by what felt like hours of meetings, lunch, etc. Because the weather was awesome a lot of this is masked, but there was huge amounts of time wasted. The whole standing red flag >> pit out thing caught me also in turn 11 at the end of the day. It turned into a judgement call if I was supposed to pit in or do another lap not really something I should be thinking about at that time. It is a little weird typing this as I had an awesome day but feel like I am bitching at the same time. The value of the event is great but you can definately feel the lack of experience.

-Dave

[SVRACER01]

i beleive the reason for the pit in during the 2nd FTL was to show proper PI/PO technique.

i can also understand the slow guy fast bike thing.(im on a SV6) i experienced it first hand. my G/F has a GSXR750, on her first trackday she was concerned about holding people up. i told her to not worry and not to look back but when you get to the front straight... move to the left and dont hammer it. just stay in whatever gear youre in and cruise. i dont like the whole pit in and go back out thing either. you miss T1,1a and 2. these are important turns. they alternate and vary in speed. we used to mention that if you are on a fast bike.. when you get on the straightaway maybe take a peek and if youve got someone right on your ass let them go. also if you are on a GSXR1K and a guy on an EX500 goes by you at some point... dont pass him back. stay behind him... find out why a 50HP bike is going around the track faster than your 150HP bike...you might learn something.

[vt625]

Originally Posted by SVRACER01

find out why a 50HP bike is going around the track faster than your 150HP bike...you might learn something.

Exactly!

The guy I went down with is a beginner rider and a first time track day rider. He was basically doing what you suggested to your GF - not focusing on the speed on the straights, but focusing on the corners. I didn't tell him to do that, and obviously no one else did, but I think that was really smart. Stay out of the way and do your thing. Be predictable and do your thing and everyone has a good time. If everyone did that, and realized that it isn't a race, or a race practice day, then everyone would end up happier.

The other thing I just thought of was in one of the meetings. The Hooters bike instructor (can't remember his name) was saying that we could add another group in the afternoon if there was a need. All I could think as he was talking was BS! I didn't pay and show up to have 4 groups and get less track time!!! To even offer that was ridiculous. If those guys are that damn fast, then they should go to a Thursday practice and run with the racers. Get one of them to help them run fast. Don't attend a performance riding school trackday. Attend a race school or race practice. Penguin school or California Superbike school comes to mind.

[Trackday Guru]

Originally Posted by vt625

Exactly!
The other thing I just thought of was in one of the meetings. The Hooters bike instructor (can't remember his name) was saying that we could add another group in the afternoon if there was a need. All I could think as he was talking was BS! I didn't pay and show up to have 4 groups and get less track time!!! To even offer that was ridiculous. If those guys are that damn fast, then they should go to a Thursday practice and run with the racers. Get one of them to help them run fast. Don't attend a performance riding school trackday. Attend a race school or race practice. Penguin school or California Superbike school comes to mind.

I agree completely.

We will not (ever) be adding a 4th session to any of our events, so there's no need to worry. He was not speaking on behalf of Mgt., he was simply offering possible solutions. So let's not make his comment into something it's not - Just let it go as his personal suggestion/opinion.

[vt625]

Originally Posted by Trackday Guru

I agree completely.

We will not (ever) be adding a 4th session to any of our events, so there's no need to worry. He was not speaking on behalf of Mgt., he was simply offering possible solutions. So let's not make his comment into something it's not - Just let it go as his personal suggestion/opinion.

Cool. Glad to hear it.

[Trackday Guru]

Originally Posted by vt625

Cool. Glad to hear it.

Just want to make sure that's clear to everyone.