[Honclfibr]

First off, had a great day at the track. LAPS puts on a hell of a day, I have to say I've never had such an opportunity to get out there and work on my lines with so much open track at any track day before. Even without riding through lunch, the number of laps I got without feeling like anyone was crowding me or holding me up...definitely a great value for the money.

I will echo what others have said about the rider meetings. It wasn't so much that they were long, as I felt that less was said in more time than at any other trackday I've been to. For me this was boring, but I feel like if I was a new rider to the track it would have been dangerous. There are a few basic things that need to be covered before anyone hits the track, and I didn't hear them covered and that worried me a bit...

First off, what to do when you see a flag, be it red yellow black or checkered? Nothing! Don't get off your line, don't look around, and for god's sake don't chop the throttle (did I hear an instructor say to do this? I hope I was dreaming)! Give a second for others to notice the flag before you put your hand up, slow down, get off line, etc...Things happen very quickly on the track and just because you saw the flag doesn't mean everyone else has. This needs to be drilled in.

Secondly, pit out and pit in. Maybe it was covered after the A group had already left, but this is one of the things that everyone seems to need a refresher on, as I saw plenty of awful pit-outs in the A group. Tight tight tight to the edge of the track on pit out, then *gradually* merge onto the line once you round turn two. For pit in, the hand should go up as soon as possible after you round turn ten and again, coming around 11 it's tight to the edge of the track to avoid intersections. This needs to be covered again and again, as it seems to be the first thing people forget on a hot track.

Finally, I didn't think enough attention was paid to the black flag. If you've got a black flag pointed at you, you need to safely but quickly get off the race line, and there needs to be a way for the cornerworkers to let you know if you need to get off the track immediately without circling into pit-in. It seems like every trackday there's *someone* who ends up leaking fluids out of their bike and has no clue what's going on, if there isn't a clear way for them to know that they need to get the hell of the track they'll end up oiling the whole thing before they end up back in the pits.

With that said, I watched the organizers walking around the pits and spoke to them a few times during the day, and it's pretty clear that despite the minor kinks in the day, they're good guys and are working their asses off trying to make the day run smoothly. Every new venture has kinks to work out, and I'd bet that the things that didn't run so smoothly at the riders meetings have been or will be addressed before the next day. I wouldn't hesitate to do another LAPS day and look forward to having a large number and variety of track dates to pick from in the future

[SVRACER01]

i can agree with that.

i will also add that if someone like the guy with all the cool "racer" bikes showed up and behaved the way he did at any other trackday... his day would have ended early and would be asked not to return.
after he blew by me at 140 mph on the back wheel over the hill on a waving red flag that I got in T1, an instructor came upo to him and told him that he couldnt be doing that and that he shouldnt be passing under a waving red and he just blew off the instructor like he was above him or the rules dont apply to him.

[vt625]

Originally Posted by Honclfibr

With that said, I watched the organizers walking around the pits and spoke to them a few times during the day, and it's pretty clear that despite the minor kinks in the day, they're good guys and are working their asses off trying to make the day run smoothly. Every new venture has kinks to work out, and I'd bet that the things that didn't run so smoothly at the riders meetings have been or will be addressed before the next day. I wouldn't hesitate to do another LAPS day and look forward to having a large number and variety of track dates to pick from in the future

I agree with everything you said, but especially this last part. I was extremely impressed with the LAPS guys walking around and asking "You having a good day?" or similar. They seemed to honestly care. I appreciate that and will certainly go back and recommend them.

[Trackday Guru]

Originally Posted by SVRACER01

i can agree with that.

i will also add that if someone like the guy with all the cool "racer" bikes showed up and behaved the way he did at any other trackday... his day would have ended early and would be asked not to return.
after he blew by me at 140 mph on the back wheel over the hill on a waving red flag that I got in T1, an instructor came up to him and told him that he couldnt be doing that and that he shouldnt be passing under a waving red and he just blew off the instructor like he was above him or the rules dont apply to him.

The issue with this rider was brought to my attention before they returned to the pits, and by the time I got to him it was being addressed with him by 3 staff members.

Even though he was riding Factory Superbikes (and I should add a big Thanks here for letting me try out Damon Buckmaster's Graves Yamaha R1/R7 Hybrid ), that certainly does not excuse this type of behavior - whether he saw the flag or not - it is our responsibility as riders to be visiually scanning for flags.

Although we were excitied to have these machines present, we do not condone the behavior.

[highsider]

Originally Posted by Trackday Guru

The issue with this rider was brought to my attention before they returned to the pits, and by the time I got to him it was being addressed with him by 3 staff members.

Even though he was riding Factory Superbikes (and I should add a big Thanks here for letting me try out Damon Buckmaster's Graves Yamaha R1/R7 Hybrid ), that certainly does not excuse this type of behavior - whether he saw the flag or not - it is our responsibility as riders to be visiually scanning for flags.

Although we were excitied to have these machines present, we do not condone the behavior.

Who gives a flying fuck what the hell he was riding?

The fact that you mention his high-dollar mounts only implies that you expect that kind of riding from someone who rides a bike like that. If I had done any of that crap on my old DRZ, would you have said "We dont condone that kind of riding, but what a cool bike!" ? Or would you have politely shown me to the track exit?

I did a Nault's trackday a couple years back, and you share many instructors with them. At that track day, I (and others) experienced *exact same* issues, with the *exact same* people. Seems to me this is a very easy problem to fix. You have a number of good instructors; why taint your trackday with a couple of bad eggs? Because they have expensive bikes, or people recognize their names? Is that really worth it?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that would be my .02 cents.

[Honclfibr]

Originally Posted by highsider

Who gives a flying fuck what the hell he was riding?

The fact that you mention his high-dollar mounts only implies that you expect that kind of riding from someone who rides a bike like that. If I had done any of that crap on my old DRZ, would you have said "We dont condone that kind of riding, but what a cool bike!" ? Or would you have politely shown me to the track exit?

I did a Nault's trackday a couple years back, and you share many instructors with them. At that track day, I (and others) experienced *exact same* issues, with the *exact same* people. Seems to me this is a very easy problem to fix. You have a number of good instructors; why taint your trackday with a couple of bad eggs? Because they have expensive bikes, or people recognize their names? Is that really worth it?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that would be my .02 cents.

I noticed that the fastest guys out there were the ones riding like gigantic tools. I won't mention any names, but it seems like the faster they were, the more they felt like the rules didn't apply to them and they could do whatever the fuck they wanted. Hey buddy, I paid for the trackday and you didn't, and frankly I don't give a damn how much of a hot shit you are, my day would have been better off without 75% of those "hot shit instrucotrs" who seemed like they were there for no other reason than to show off how awesome of a rider they were and couldn't give a damn about "instructing".

Of course there are exceptions, I know there were a few of the elite who actually gave a damn and spent their day riding responsibly and trying to help out other riders, and I hope that as the trackday matures they will rise to the top and continue to be part of the event as the other tools who were just there to stroke their own egos are phased out.

I'll say that one of those guys is none other than Scott Greenwood. Not only was he the guy who got me to this trackday in the first place, he took the time out of his day to introduce himself to me and encourage me to seek him out if I wanted to work on anything. Though I didn't take him up on that offer (his riding is so far beyond what I could hope to do on any other bike, and I was enjoying just having some open track to work at my own pace) I felt like he was very sincere in his offer and wanted to help. And the many, MANY times that I was passed by him at mach 10, it was always a clean pass despite the vast differences in our closing speeds what with him being one of the top lrrs racers on a fast bike and me being a shitty novice on an EX500. Many thanks to LAPS for bringing him onboard, this is a guy who I greatly enjoyed sharing the track with and hope to do so in the future

[Trackday Guru]

Originally Posted by highsider

Who gives a flying fuck what the hell he was riding?

The fact that you mention his high-dollar mounts only implies that you expect that kind of riding from someone who rides a bike like that. If I had done any of that crap on my old DRZ, would you have said "We dont condone that kind of riding, but what a cool bike!" ? Or would you have politely shown me to the track exit?

I did a Nault's trackday a couple years back, and you share many instructors with them. At that track day, I (and others) experienced *exact same* issues, with the *exact same* people. Seems to me this is a very easy problem to fix. You have a number of good instructors; why taint your trackday with a couple of bad eggs? Because they have expensive bikes, or people recognize their names? Is that really worth it?

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that would be my .02 cents.

I didn't state anywhere that I "expect that kind of riding" from anyone (including someone with high dollar bike), so don't put words in my mouth. What I said was that there's no excuse for that type of behavior on the track -

There are certain riders and a couple instructors who were causing problems with their riding at this event and have been asked not to return. And BTW - the rider in question is not a part of our staff. He's a rider just like you, and a paying customer we had to manage.

So lighten up a little, we've addressed the issue and taken care of it by taking corrective action.

[highsider]

Originally Posted by Trackday Guru

I didn't state anywhere that I "expect that kind of riding" from anyone (including someone with high dollar bike), so don't put words in my mouth. What I said was that there's no excuse for that type of behavior on the track -

I didn't put words in your mouth, I simply advised what that sort of statement implies. If I am mistaken, I apologize.

But since you bring it up - why exactly *did* you mention his hopped-up bikes? There was obviously a reason, or you'd not have bothered typing it up. Let's hear it - exactly *what* relevance does his bike have on his dangerous riding on the track? *Why* would you take a thread where someone complained about him to thank him for a ride on his bike?

Originally Posted by Trackday Guru

There are certain riders and instructors who caused problems with their riding that were at this event that have been asked not to return. ANd BTW - the rider in question is not a part of our staff. He's a rider just like you, and a paying customer we had to manage.

Really? Then why is he speaking at rider's meetings?

Originally Posted by Trackday Guru

So lighten up a little, we've taken care of it.

That is exactly the attitude concerns me about your organization. A few people have provided you with feedback, and you've gotten very defensive.

[Trackday Guru]

Originally Posted by highsider

I didn't put words in your mouth, I simply advised what that sort of statement implies. If I am mistaken, I apologize.

But since you bring it up - why exactly *did* you mention his hopped-up bikes? There was obviously a reason, or you'd not have bothered typing it up. Let's hear it - exactly *what* relevance does his bike have on his dangerous riding on the track? *Why* would you take a thread where someone complained about him to thank him for a ride on his bike?

Really? Then why is he speaking at rider's meetings?

That is exactly the attitude concerns me about your organization. A few people have provided you with feedback, and you've gotten very defensive.

I mentioned his bikes as a simple thank you for allowing me the opportunity to get on one...an opportunity to ride a pure Factory Superbike that is few and far in between.

He did not speak at any one of our meetings. I think you have the rider in question confused with a staff member. Although he asked repeatedly to control ride or instruct, we in turn repeatedly decided to not give him that opportunity. Mostly because of the difficulty he displayed at not being able to "tone down" his riding. After seeing that, we wanted no part of exploring his teaching abilities. He was a paying rider, not an instructor or control rider.

If you re-read the thread and posts you'll see that we are both stating basically the same thing...safety first, I agree with you. Please don't mistake being "defensive" for making a "corrective" comment, we're all after the same thing here; a safe place to ride and a safe atmosphere to ride in - and we're taking all corrective actions to ensure that we provide that.

And we value any comment or feedback you want give. Just don't put words in my mouth. You've corrected your comments above, apologized for it if taken in error, and I accept the apology - no problem. As stated above, we don't condone that type of behavior on the track and took measures in an attempt to control the situation with this rider.

[highsider]

I must have had the fellow in the Hooters leathers mixed up with someone else - my bad.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

Originally Posted by highsider

I must have had the fellow in the Hooters leathers mixed up with someone else - my bad.

hey highsider it was nice meeting you!

Ummm the hooters guy - that was Tom - and he was a great guy and came over and offered me instruction withouht me even asking.... followed me around he had some really serious knowledge and was a great guy.... he and greenwood were hanging around each other and both offered very insightful instruction and were so easy to talk to

as far as someone pulling a wheelie here and there - i too would say lighten up - its a trackday and we're not working - let's all hold hands and be HAPPY

now on to hear a rant about how someone wants to feel absolutely safe on a track at all times while riding 120 down the straight

there are different TDs offered - i like something that is something between a very strict trackday and a crazy open practice.... you make ur choices i guess

all that being said - ill offer my criticism as this was my 2nd time w/ LAPS- i do agree that the 2nd follow the leader session was more than overkill and very frustrating.... and the 2nd meeting im still confused about!


Dennis

[Trackday Guru]

Originally Posted by Smooth R6

hey highsider it was nice meeting you!

Ummm the hooters guy - that was Tom - and he was a great guy and came over and offered me instruction withouht me even asking.... followed me around he had some really serious knowledge and was a great guy.... he and greenwood were hanging around each other and both offered very insightful instruction and were so easy to talk to

Dennis

Hooters....That guy is Tom Bibeau - he is an instructor of ours. No Problem, a simple case of mistaken identity.

[Crash Dummy Denno]

Originally Posted by Trackday Guru

Hooters....That guy is Tom Bibeau - he is an instructor of ours. No Problem, a simple case of mistaken identity.

its a shame he rides a gixxa

[Doc]

I have to say I noticed your female instructor was working her butt off with her group. Even in the pits she was getting them together and discussing things.
Thanks for the day guys. Yes I did feel there was confusion and I also felt some of my time was wasted. I also just sat there and said "there are people here that are less experienced than you so just sit tight".

I think taking the in experienced aside and giving them instruction would have been better. Yellow and Blue (B and A) groups should be people who have been to a NHIS before and "get it". I was in B and won't ever go there again. There were people in that group that should have been in Red (C)... All off the racing line and only going fast on the straights! I realize that people are not racers but maybe if some of your control riders were made some changes early things may have been better.
I will do another LAPS day. I am sure the next one will be better. you guys had ALOT going on, which was cool but maybe toning it down to start woould be better.
It is Blue (A) for me from now on.

[SVRACER01]

Originally Posted by Trackday Guru

There are certain riders and a couple instructors who were causing problems with their riding at this event and have been asked not to return.

with that said.....can i have job?