[bentbryan]

I hear this alot from people who are voting for Kerry. Anybody care to back up your beliefs? And you can save the 'Enron' and 'Halliburton' lines for somebody who isn't informed. (unless of course you can back this up, which I already know you can't because I did some checking)

[bigred875]

cuz he act's looks and talks like a creepy grumpy old man

that's what my mother says about him...lol

[Kham]

not much to argue with your own side.

i didn't think he was evil. didn't paymuch attention to him. the focus is on the head guys.

[highsider]

I think Cheney is evil just generally due to his grumpy ass demeanor. He seems about as friendly as a porcupine.

My "Halliburton" line - Dick Cheney played an integral part in giving Halliburton a no-bid contract in Iraq. He says this doesn't benefit him, but he is lying - he doesn't own any stock in Halliburton, but he DOES own STOCK OPTIONS.

It is indisputable that the administration of which he is a part has helped Halliburton immensely; I think aiding a company in which you own stock options when you are the Veep is wrong.

[bentbryan]

Hate to burst your bubble, but Halliburton has been the #1 contractor for the U.S. government for some time. (yup, that's right! thru BOTH Clinton administrations)

[bigred875]

lol..not too mention he has had nothing to do with Halibutron since taking office....

[highsider]

Originally posted by bentbryan
Hate to burst your bubble, but Halliburton has been the #1 contractor for the U.S. government for some time. (yup, that's right! thru BOTH Clinton administrations)

Yes, they were - by WINNING BIDS, not by being given them.

And enough with the attitude - "Hate to burst your bubble" - if you want to debate something, fine, but you dont need to be an ass about it.

[highsider]

Originally posted by bigred875
lol..not too mention he has had nothing to do with Halibutron since taking office....

Not internally, at least....

[bentbryan]

Originally posted by highsider
Yes, they were - by WINNING BIDS, not by being given them.

And enough with the attitude - "Hate to burst your bubble" - if you want to debate something, fine, but you dont need to be an ass about it.

I think my attitude is fine. You don't like it, then don't read/ respond to my posts. As far as your argument goes...

The truth about Haliburton
One of the things that I'm perpetually sick of is the whining over Halliburton that I hear from so many on the left. Of course, usually a protestor can't say "Halliburton" without "Dick Cheney". Initially, I thought that this was something that, along with the more ludicrous conspiracy theories, wouldn't get much farther than a protest sign. But increasingly, I've found that it is popping up more and more.

So when I found this post at Moxie, I was absolutely thrilled. Finally, a point by point refutation about the Halliburton/Iraq situation. Among the articles Mox links to is this one by Rich Lowry for Townhall.com, where he discusses the issue of "no-bid" contracts:

As journalist Byron York has reported, it's not really true that the company got its work without competitive bidding. In the 1990s, the military looked for ways to get outside help handling the logistics associated with foreign interventions. It came up with the U.S. Army Logistics Civil Augmentation Program, or LOGCAP. The program is a multiyear contract for a corporation to be on call to provide whatever services might be needed quickly.

Halliburton won a competitive bidding process for LOGCAP in 2001. So it was natural to turn to it (actually, to its wholly owned subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root) for prewar planning about handling oil fires in Iraq. "To invite other contractors to compete to perform a highly classified requirement that Kellogg Brown & Root was already under a competitively awarded contract to perform would have been a wasteful duplication of effort," the Army Corps of Engineers commander has written.

Then, in February 2003, the Corps of Engineers gave Halliburton a temporary no-bid contract to implement its classified oil-fire plan. The thinking was it would be absurd to undertake the drawn-out contracting process on the verge of war. If the administration had done that and there had been catastrophic fires, it would now be considered evidence of insufficient postwar planning. And Halliburton was an obvious choice, since it put out 350 oil-well fires in Kuwait after the first Gulf War.

The Clinton administration made the same calculation in its own dealings with Halliburton. The company had won the LOGCAP in 1992, then lost it in 1997. The Clinton administration nonetheless awarded a no-bid contract to Halliburton to continue its work in the Balkans supporting the U.S. peacekeeping mission there because it made little sense to change midstream. According to Byron York, Al Gore's reinventing-government panel even singled out Halliburton for praise for its military logistics work.

So, did Clinton and Gore involve the United States in the Balkans to benefit Halliburton? That charge makes as much sense as the one that Democrats are hurling at Bush now. Would that they directed more of their outrage at the people in Iraq who want to sabotage the country's oil infrastructure, rather than at the U.S. corporation charged with helping repair it.
So we've settled the issue of the no-bid contracts. Now the question is how much Cheney is benefitting from these Iraq contracts. The answer? Nothing. Check this out:
FACT: Vice President Cheney’s Income From Halliburton Is Fixed Portion Of Money Owed From 1999, Not Based On Current Contracts Or Investments. “Cheney and his wife had more varied sources of earnings, including the vice president’s $198,600 government salary; the $178,437 he earned in deferred compensation from Halliburton Co., the Dallas-based energy services firm he headed until Aug. 16, 2000 … Halliburton has been awarded as much as $6 billion in contracts in postwar Iraq but has been under scrutiny for allegedly overcharging the government. Cheney elected in 1998 to recoup over five years a fixed portion of the money he made in 1999 as the company’s chief executive officer.” (“Bush, Cheney Benefit From ‘03 Tax Cuts,” The Associated Press, 4/14/04)

Cheney’s Statement Of No Financial Interest Is “Accurate.” “Cheney’s office said that to avoid any such questions and any suggestion that Cheney would have a stake in Halliburton’s continued success, he bought an insurance policy back in 2001 – at a cost to him of $15,000 – to guarantee that he would receive his deferred salary regardless of whether Halliburton stayed in business. Cheney is expected to receive three more installments of his deferred salary – in 2003, 2004 and 2005. … The aide said the insurance policy would pay Cheney $140,000 a year for five years if Halliburton went insolvent and was unable to pay Cheney’s deferred salary. In strict accounting terms, Cheney’s claim that he has no financial interest in the company is accurate, said certified public accountant Doug Stives of the Curchin Group in Redbank, New Jersey, who has handled similar executive pay arrangements. … ‘Assuming he has divested himself of all stock holdings in the company,’ Stives said, ‘it is accurate for Cheney to say he has no financial interest in Halliburton.’ The aide said Cheney elected in 1998 – two years before he became the head of the Bush campaign’s vice presidential search committee -- to defer his 1999 salary. … The Cheney aide said that on January 18, 2001 – just before being sworn in as vice president – Cheney assigned all of his Halliburton stock options to a charitable trust.” (John King, “Cheney Aide Rejects Halliburton Questions,” CNN.com, 9/16/03)

The Remaining Stock Options Have Been Donated To Charity. Cheney sold most of his Halliburton stock before taking office in 2001. “[T]he vice president arranged to donate the eventual profits from exercising the remaining $7.8 million in stock options he holds, primarily from Halliburton, in the following percentages: 40% to the University of Wyoming, his alma mater; 40% to the George Washington University Medical Faculty Associates, which benefits the cardiac unit where he has been treated; and 20% to Capital Partners for Education, a foundation that provides scholarships to low-income, high-school-aged children in the Washington.” (Craig T. Ferris, “2000 Tax Returns: Bush Has No Tax-Exempt Holdings, But Cheney Has $2 Million,” The Bond Buyer, 4/17/01; Scott Lindlaw, “Bush, Cheney Earnings Documented,” The Associated Press, 4/14/01)

[highsider]

Originally posted by bentbryan
I think my attitude is fine. You don't like it, then don't read/ respond to my posts. As far as your argument goes...

Look, I'm not trying to piss you off, I was trying to answer your question. If you're going to be a peckerhead about it, I wont bother, although it seems rather pointless to me to ask a question and then cop an attitude with those who answer it.

I didn't know that Cheney had donated his stock options to charity, thats one of the reasons I enjoy debating people on this site; I learn from discussing with like-minded people.

I suspect the donation of Cheney's stock options corresponded directly with Al Franken's exposure to the public that he had them....seems to follow that timeline.

[bentbryan]

Originally posted by highsider


Look, I'm not trying to piss you off, I was trying to answer your question. If you're going to be a peckerhead about it, I wont bother, although it seems rather pointless to me to ask a question and then cop an attitude with those who answer it.

I didn't know that Cheney had donated his stock options to charity, thats one of the reasons I enjoy debating people on this site; I learn from discussing with like-minded people.

I suspect the donation of Cheney's stock options corresponded directly with Al Franken's exposure to the public that he had them....seems to follow that timeline.

You suspect, huh?

[highsider]

Originally posted by bentbryan
You suspect, huh?

You know what? Forget I said anything. Talking to you is like arguing with an 8 year old.

[odduc]

The reason why Haliburton keeps coming up is because the left has no other arguments against Cheney. The Al Frankens and Michael Moores and Dan Rathers of the world keep driving the issue down our throats knowing that this is a completely baseless charge. The left is of the belief that if you repeat a lie long enough and LOUD enough(we know they are plenty loud) it becomes truth to them. Proof, who needs that, right????

C'mon guys, I like all of ya, but open your eyes.

[highsider]

Originally posted by lrrs167
The reason why Haliburton keeps coming up is because the left has no other arguments against Cheney. The Al Frankens and Michael Moores and Dan Rathers of the world keep driving the issue down our throats knowing that this is a completely baseless charge. The left is of the belief that if you repeat a lie long enough and LOUD enough(we know they are plenty loud) it becomes truth to them. Proof, who needs that, right????

C'mon guys, I like all of ya, but open your eyes.

Ah yes, someone with some maturity - I thank you.

I have to disagree, though. First, I think its silly to say that liberals repeat lies to try and make them true - no matter what you think of their political beliefs, they're not liars. I dont think Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly is a liar, I just think they see things the way they want to. Just like Al Franken or Michael Moore.

[bentbryan]

Originally posted by highsider
You know what? Forget I said anything. Talking to you is like arguing with an 8 year old.

Well that certainly doesn't say much of 8 year-olds.

[Kham]

well maybe more aprorpiately "mis inform"? but that maybe even worse. check my quote. but then it goes both ways.

[highsider]

Originally posted by bentbryan
Well that certainly doesn't say much of 8 year-olds.

You're funny. I like you.

[old timer]

Politics and Religion...

[labman]

Originally posted by highsider
Ah yes, someone with some maturity - I thank you.

I have to disagree, though. First, I think its silly to say that liberals repeat lies to try and make them true - no matter what you think of their political beliefs, they're not liars. I dont think Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly is a liar, I just think they see things the way they want to. Just like Al Franken or Michael Moore.

So, You don't think Dan Rather intentionally tried to pass off phony memos as authentic to try to discredit President Bush? I would most certainly put Rather into the Liar category.

[highsider]

You want to know the REAL reason I don't like Cheney? Well here it is - when I was a kid, Dick Cheney molested me. Thats right, he touched me in a bad place. He and Michael Jackson both. Also, very few people know this, but Dick Cheney helped murder O.J.'s wife (OJ is actually innocent), it was Cheney and Bush that actually did it.

And another thing - Cheney wrote the script for the movie "Gigli".

Dan Rather makes love to donkeys when he's not on TV. He also owns a porn site devoted to "Fat transsexual dominatrixes". Apparently, one of his models from that site is also his fact-checker for his news broadcasts.

But thats nothing - John Kerry knows where JonBenet Ramsey is, and he intends to smoke lots of weed in the White House if he is elected. His idea of tort reform is that he is going to make 16 year olds legal to have sex with - but only if they're Vietnamese.

Thank you, that is all.

[bentbryan]

someone's been

[Stoneman]

Originally posted by highsider
You want to know the REAL reason I don't like Cheney? Well here it is - when I was a kid, Dick Cheney molested me. Thats right, he touched me in a bad place. He and Michael Jackson both. Also, very few people know this, but Dick Cheney helped murder O.J.'s wife (OJ is actually innocent), it was Cheney and Bush that actually did it.

And another thing - Cheney wrote the script for the movie "Gigli".

Dan Rather makes love to donkeys when he's not on TV. He also owns a porn site devoted to "Fat transsexual dominatrixes". Apparently, one of his models from that site is also his fact-checker for his news broadcasts.

But thats nothing - John Kerry knows where JonBenet Ramsey is, and he intends to smoke lots of weed in the White House if he is elected. His idea of tort reform is that he is going to make 16 year olds legal to have sex with - but only if they're Vietnamese.

Thank you, that is all.

[PatSV650]

Originally posted by bigred875
lol..not too mention he has had nothing to do with Halibutron since taking office....

Yeah, right!

[bigred875]

Originally posted by PatSV650
Yeah, right!

lol..ok prove it..lol

[PatSV650]

LOL
Nah, I'm just gonna do my part to try to vote Bush out.
I made my decision based on where they stand on the issues, the facts shown of what either has done, good or bad, and the fact that Bush's replies to everything Kerry said were 1) Yes I did! 2) No I didn't! and 3) Me too!



Oh, and he can't ride a bike without doing a faceplant