[rpete]

For anyone who wants to read about my experience appealing a
ticket...

The citation was for speeding, clocked 1/2 mile on Riverway in Boston,
doing 50mph in a 30mph zone.

The state police officer showed up for the court date in West Roxbury
(I think these guys would much rather be in a courtroom than on
detail, so don't count on them not showing). After waiting an hour
through the restraining order and landlord disputes, my case was
up. The officer and I both stood in front of the judge, who informed
us that the officer's testimony would be heard, I would be allowed to
ask questions, then I could tell my story, and finally a ruling would
be made. The state police officer mostly just repeated what was on the
citation, he observed me traveling at a high rate of speed, he
followed me while noting his speed, etc. The judge was eager to assist the
officer, asking if it was on that "twisty section of Jamaicaway" to
which the officer replied "yes, quite twisty."

Now I start asking questions. I had sent a request to the police
officer by certified mail, asking for maintenance and calibration
records of the speedometer, a copy of the officer's daily log, and
reproductions of both sides of the officer's copy of the citation
(all available under Massachusetts General Laws chapter 66 section
10). I received no response to these requests, so the first question I
ask the police officer was whether he had received a request from me
for records related to this citation. I was taken aback when he said
he had not, since I had the certified mail return receipt with a
signature (not the officer's, presumably someone in the mail room had
signed for it) and the date it was delivered. I told the judge I had a
signed return receipt for this mailing, but he wasn't interested in
seeing my receipt. I told the judge which records I had requested. The
judge addressed each request in turn, essentially telling me they
would not have helped my defense. I then asked the police officer if
he had an independent verification that his speedometer was accurate
that day, and he answered "no." After this I asked the officer if he
had requested my signature on the citation, and if he was aware that
Massachusetts law (MGL 90c 2) required him to do so. Both answers were
"no."

The judge then asked me to tell my side of the story, but I told him I
had nothing more to say, which seemed to surprise both him and his
clerk. The judge then ruled that I was responsible based on the
testimony of the state police trooper.

Now just a bit of a rant...apparently the police are under no
obligation to show that their speedometers are accurate, or to write
citations according to the law as it is written. And it does not
matter if they ignore requests for public records (again, contrary to
Massachusetts law) to be used by the defense. All that seemed to matter
in this case was the state police officer's testimony.

[bbhzx10]

You are apparently a bit new to this speeding ticket thing???

Just an FYI don't try that in Me. or NH or the judge will instantly increase the fine and you'll be out alot of money. Believe it or not honesty does work quite often, although it's tough if you already have a record. Next time try for something like "I do appologize sir I was going in excess of the speed limit, as you can see by my driving record I am quite responsable and always ride within the law. However this was my first ride of the season on the motorcycle and I didn't realize just how fast I was going untill I saw the officer. I just came here today to ask for a second chance."
Bet you'll at least get a reduction.

[dhuze]

Originally posted by rpete
...................

Now just a bit of a rant...apparently the police are under no
obligation to show that their speedometers are accurate, or to write
citations according to the law as it is written. And it does not
matter if they ignore requests for public records (again, contrary to
Massachusetts law) to be used by the defense. All that seemed to matter
in this case was the state police officer's testimony.

Apparantly speeders are under no obligation to obey posted speed limits contrary to Massachusetts law. And it does not matter if they ignore posted speed limits (again, contrary to Massachusetts law) All that seemes to matter is their feelings that it is OK for them to speed.

You should hang out with Kham and you can both bitch to each other about your tickets. Atleast you both will care what each other has to say.

[richw]

They want your money it pays their salaries

[rpete]

Originally posted by dhuze
Apparantly speeders are under no obligation to obey posted speed limits contrary to Massachusetts law. And it does not matter if they ignore posted speed limits (again, contrary to Massachusetts law) All that seemes to matter is their feelings that it is OK for them to speed.

You should hang out with Kham and you can both bitch to each other about your tickets. Atleast you both will care what each other has to say.

Your response was predictable enough. We have public records laws and other laws laying out the proper procedures for police issuing citations. These exist for a reason, and I'm sure a lawful person such as yourself would agree that they should be adhered to, just as traffic laws should be followed.

[dave72370]

The main question here is, WERE YOU SPEEDING??

If you were and you got a ticket then stop bitching

Last year I got a ticket for 71 in a 45 out in charlemont. I went to court, appologized.. After which the judge reduced it to 55 in a 45. I paid my $100 and said thank you. I was guilty, I was speeding and I paid for it. Enough said

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by rpete
For anyone who wants to read about my experience appealing a
ticket...

The citation was for speeding, clocked 1/2 mile on Riverway in Boston,
doing 50mph in a 30mph zone.

The state police officer showed up for the court date in West Roxbury
(I think these guys would much rather be in a courtroom than on
detail, so don't count on them not showing). After waiting an hour
through the restraining order and landlord disputes, my case was
up. The officer and I both stood in front of the judge, who informed
us that the officer's testimony would be heard, I would be allowed to
ask questions, then I could tell my story, and finally a ruling would
be made. The state police officer mostly just repeated what was on the
citation, he observed me traveling at a high rate of speed, he
followed me while noting his speed, etc. The judge was eager to assist the
officer, asking if it was on that "twisty section of Jamaicaway" to
which the officer replied "yes, quite twisty."

Now I start asking questions. I had sent a request to the police
officer by certified mail, asking for maintenance and calibration
records of the speedometer, a copy of the officer's daily log, and
reproductions of both sides of the officer's copy of the citation
(all available under Massachusetts General Laws chapter 66 section
10). I received no response to these requests, so the first question I
ask the police officer was whether he had received a request from me
for records related to this citation. I was taken aback when he said
he had not, since I had the certified mail return receipt with a
signature (not the officer's, presumably someone in the mail room had
signed for it) and the date it was delivered. I told the judge I had a
signed return receipt for this mailing, but he wasn't interested in
seeing my receipt. I told the judge which records I had requested. The
judge addressed each request in turn, essentially telling me they
would not have helped my defense. I then asked the police officer if
he had an independent verification that his speedometer was accurate
that day, and he answered "no." After this I asked the officer if he
had requested my signature on the citation, and if he was aware that
Massachusetts law (MGL 90c 2) required him to do so. Both answers were
"no."

The judge then asked me to tell my side of the story, but I told him I
had nothing more to say, which seemed to surprise both him and his
clerk. The judge then ruled that I was responsible based on the
testimony of the state police trooper.

Now just a bit of a rant...apparently the police are under no
obligation to show that their speedometers are accurate, or to write
citations according to the law as it is written. And it does not
matter if they ignore requests for public records (again, contrary to
Massachusetts law) to be used by the defense. All that seemed to matter
in this case was the state police officer's testimony.

You did most things correct. Problem with your game plan?

1. Did he clock you with his speedo or radar? If speedo, that's easier to show as calibrated than radar unit.

2. APPEAL. If they did not respond to your request for discovery, it is your right to request a continuance or dismissal on lack of evidence. Appeal the decision of the judge if he does not grant the continuance. DO NOT continue with your defence and just accept the "Doesn't matter, procede." statement from the judge. Explain how the information you were not provided is crucial to your case and that the officer needs to provide you with this information by law. Next time go in with specific legal teminoligy about these laws and use them.

Other than that, you did ok it seems. You are kinda fucked no matter what getting caught speeding on a road where it is very common and well known unfortunately.

This is a LOT different than Kham's response. You were complaining about improper procedure on their behalf, not yours. Nothing wrong with that, I'd do it as well. Make them work for YOUR money, even if in the wrong! I speed, and when I do get a ticket, it is my fault. They will still have to work to get my money though

[RandyO]

you should have never got as far as cross examining the officer

you should have made a motion to dismiss based on the state's failure to respond to the disvovery request...and you were unable to prepare a proper defense, AS soon as your case was called


However, they probably did not respond to your discovery request because you didn't request it correctly

[RandyO]

Originally posted by bbhzx10


Just an FYI don't try that in Me. or NH or the judge will instantly increase the fine and you'll be out alot of money.

NOT TRUE

[bbhzx10]

Got a few bucks to put on that Randy?

[RandyO]

Originally posted by bbhzx10
Got a few bucks to put on that Randy?

I haven't been in court in maine, but certainly not my experience in NH

1. they don't automaticly find you guilty ( I have beat every ticket I have contested)

2. they can't increase legislatively mandated fines (they can add a nominal "court cost"

[bbhzx10]

They can not only increase the fine but also suspend you license. A friend of mine had an experiance with this last week, however I didn't say they automatically found anyone guilty just that they could alter the fine.

[RandyO]

Originally posted by bbhzx10
They can not only increase the fine but also suspend you license. A friend of mine had an experiance with this last week, however I didn't say they automatically found anyone guilty just that they could alter the fine.

my bad your right, you said "instantly"

but in that context I take it to mean the same thing

and I'm sure plenty of people have had that experience

it just means you want to be careful and prepared when you go to court..... but I doubt NH & ME are unique in that respect.

if you can't challenge the credibility of the evidence against you, you prolly not going to get anywhere, police officers are professional witnesses and should be treated accordingly

the best way to get the fine reduced is being polite to the leo during the stop, he'll let you off with a warning, or a reduced violation

[Kham]

Originally posted by dhuze


You should hang out with Kham and you can both bitch to each other about your tickets. Atleast you both will care what each other has to say.

at least i wouldn't have to deal with you haters. olo

[Kham]

Originally posted by TheIglu


This is a LOT different than Kham's response. You were complaining about improper procedure on their behalf, not yours. Nothing wrong with that, I'd do it as well. Make them work for YOUR money, even if in the wrong! I speed, and when I do get a ticket, it is my fault. They will still have to work to get my money though

if only im as good as this guy, but i know enough or care that no one cares about my detail trial. i dont see much different from what i rant about. i first posted about a cop and grumpy judge makes a bad combo and had hope to leave it at that. you're only interested in gaining up on me.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by Kham
if only im as good as this guy, but i know enough or care that no one cares about my detail trial. i dont see much different from what i rant about. i first posted about a cop and grumpy judge makes a bad combo and had hope to leave it at that. you're only interested in gaining up on me.

Did you even submit a request for discovery? Or are you still hung up on this. Did you go through and try to defend your position using an educated manner? Seriously man, I wasn't badmouthing you and then you come in here to be a prick about how I pointed out the difference between your situation and this persons. I was pointing out the differences in arguments. STFU and get over it already.

[highsider]

Originally posted by Kham
who is really NOT getting over it. you and others stil don't get it. what i said has NOTHING to do with geting over it. you presume much. you said it's different and i said it's not that much different. NO BIG DEAL! end of it as far im concern. but wow! STFU? man i really wish you say it in my face.

Aren't you supposed to be "missing in action"? I keep waiting/hoping that will happen, but you always come back.

[highsider]

RPete -

I dont think your post, and the incessant whining of Kham bear much in common.

I think you should appeal, it sounds to me like you poked enormous holes in the cop's case, the judge just doesn't like motorcyclists. It is 100% illegal for you to be found guilty without proper discovery.

When you get a speeding ticket, you dont usually see a real judge (this applies to most states, so correct me if I'm wrong). They are Administrative Law Judges, who dont have to adhere to a lot of laws because they are a part of an administration (i.e., DMV or whatever). Usually when you appeal, you get to go before a real judge, who would make the officer get the things you asked for, or throw the case out.

This system is set up on purpose. As many people on here have said, its a funding thing. 99% of people in your position are going to give up, and all they had to do was to pay an officer and an ALJ to appear in Court that day for however much they gained in fines.

Good luck, I hope you appeal.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by Kham
who is really NOT getting over it. you and others stil don't get it. what i said has NOTHING to do with geting over it. you presume much. you said it's different and i said it's not that much different. NO BIG DEAL! end of it as far im concern. but wow! STFU? man i really wish you say it in my face.

You just don't know when to quit, do you

[ancosta]

Originally posted by TheIglu
Did you even submit a request for discovery? Or are you still hung up on this. Did you go through and try to defend your position using an educated manner? Seriously man, I wasn't badmouthing you and then you come in here to be a prick about how I pointed out the difference between your situation and this persons. I was pointing out the differences in arguments. STFU and get over it already.

+1 you need to file a motion for discovery in advance of the court date, what the judge referred to your request for the police to "help your defense" happens all the time, but as a specific motion of discovery.

[Kham]

i paid the ticket and quit on that but change my mind and decided to stick around to see the sort of behavior from some people. just keep in mind the crying pic doesnot depict me.

sorry rpete.

[hessogood]

Sounds like the making of a ultra-super-light-feather-weight cage match.

[richw]

I think we should be able to commiserate about tickets here.

You should expect a little sympathy and maybe some good natured ribbing in the better you then me vain.

You know I want a kinder gentler board

For all you ticket paying sheep

Get a radar detector
Yes sir ;no sir; I didn't think I was going that fast.
Get a local lawyer
Have him/her meet with the DA don't get to the judge if possible.

[Kham]

you forgot praying.

[TheIglu]

Originally posted by hessogood
Sounds like the making of a ultra-super-light-feather-weight cage match.

BAH ha ha ha, it would be like two geriatric monkeys trying to kill each other.

Kham, lets set this up and we'll take bets then throw the fight and make tons of cake