[Tricky Mike]

So, I'm looking to start reloading this summer and I'm looking for advice from you guys that have been at it for a while.
I don't want to spend too much initially so I was thinking single-stage over a progressive setup, but I suppose I could be swayed one way or another at this point if progressive is really that much better and not a total headache for a newb. Since I don't know enough about it, though, I have tons of questions like should I be looking to spend a little more on some stuff as opposed to others... like the scale as opposed to the press. Is that Lee stuff decent or not, etc.

My main motivation for doing this is to produce more accurate, less expensive .223 loads for target shooting, but I'm sure I'll eventually want to reload for my handguns, too for what that may be worth. I guess accuracy is a little more important that reloading speed at the moment.
Cruising MidwayUSA leads me to believe there are a fair amount of options out there.
Any advice?

[JohnnyV]

I'd say you would want to get a descent scale if you're looking for accurate, consistant reloads, as well as a good set of dies. Also, if you don't have one already, pick up a chronometer. It's helpful to know how close you actually are with your reloads. A brass tumbler is also good to have to get all the shit out of the cases. Initial cost of the equipment can be a bit, but once you've got it all and if you're reloading enough, it can be worth it. I personally won't reload my own handgun ammo simply because the cost of the ammo I'm getting is less than what it would actually cost me to reload.

[636]

the rcbs master kit is the best for the money.....what twist is the AR upper that you have?

[dhuze]

You can get an inexpensive single stage press from Leeprecission.com For about $130 I would pick up a RCBS Rockchucker. The dies are around $30 more. and like telefonica said you need a good scale. I have a beam scale and a digital and the beam scale is all over the place with its measures.

I might have an extra Lee .223 die set at home. It will fit in the RCBS press although everyone will tell you they don't.

[636]

Originally Posted by dhuze

You can get an inexpensive single stage press from Leeprecission.com For about $130 I would pick up a RCBS Rockchucker. The dies are around $30 more. and like 636 said you need a good scale. I have a beam scale and a digital and the beam scale is all over the place with its measures.

you had problems with the beam?i have a 5-0-5 and never had a problem.....just takes too damn long to measure out loads.....but agree completely on the digi.....if you are going to benchrest accuracy,make sure you get a good trickler too

[Currently]

I used to do a lot of reloading ... started with a Lyman Spartan C
press and finally ended up with a Dillon Precision 550. I was set
up for over 30 calibers when I finally got rid of the whole thing.
(long painful story)

My advice ... don't load military calibers.
Watch the sales and the different lots.
You can shoot surplus for MUCH cheaper than you can load.
And this is coming from someone who use to buy bulk.
I used to get my Winchester ball powder in 20 pound cannisters,
bullets by the 5000 round case and primers by the thousands.
(I was a FFL dealer at the time.)

Military cases require a lot of work to be prepared for reloading.
The primer pockets have to be swaged to get rid of the crimp.
You also have to scrape out the primer residue, clean your brass
and by the time you are done, you have quite a bit of money, time
and still haven't fired a round. You also have to get a case trimmer
as the brass stretches every time you shoot.

Get your ammo by the thousand round case or even better, get
a couple of friends together to pick up ten thousand round pallets.

Some of that ammo is very accurate. The AR and other gun forums
will tell you what lots to watch out for. Good lots go fast.

Having owned my share of firearms, other than a 12 gauge, every firearm
I would buy would be a military caliber just for sheer ammo cost savings
due to economies of scale.

Reloading is only worthwhile if you shoot a lot of traditional centerfire
ammunition that is not a military caliber. Believe me when I say it is no
easy task to develop an accurate load. Each rifle is different and it can
get to be really expensive if you have a lot of calibers.

[Tricky Mike]

Thanks guys,
The barrel on the AR is 1:9 twist...

I kind of figured on a scale upgrade... a good trickler is something I hadn't really considered. I can definitely see where that would play a big role in making accurate charges a whole lot easier.

The Rockchucker looks like it might be way to go... It's a lot more expensive than the Lee stuff once you factor in all the stuff a newb is gonna need, but it looks like it's probably worth it. I'm on the fence about the kit... seems like the scale and powder measure are things I'll be looking to replace anyway. I've heard some benchrest guys swear by the powder measure, which surprised me. Do you guys use one?

I hear you on the bulk military surplus stuff. I think part of this is curiosity, too. I've never done it so I want to see how it all works.

[dhuze]

Currenty. You haven't bought ammo for a while have you? Ammo costs are through the roof. If you can find military surplus you are paying top dollar for it. 500 rounds of .223 is around $180 now. Last year it was $90. Even the cost of 7.62 X 54 is getting ridiculous and that was the cheapest stuff you could ever buy.

[ZX-12R]

Originally Posted by trickphoto

The Rockchucker looks like it might be way to go... It's a lot more expensive than the Lee stuff once you factor in all the stuff a newb is gonna need, but it looks like it's probably worth it. I'm on the fence about the kit... seems like the scale and powder measure are things I'll be looking to replace anyway. I've heard some benchrest guys swear by the powder measure, which surprised me. Do you guys use one?

If cost is a concern, look for used equipment. I picked up my Rockchucker for about 1/5 of its new in box price at a local dealer that had a used equipment section. As far as powder measures go, I make my own. I measure out a charge and put it in a case that has been resized one too many times. I mark where the powder level is and trim the case back to that level. One scoop of powder and a couple turns of the trickler and my charge is spot on. I keep a few around for various charge sizes and powder types.

A hand priming tool makes the process a lot faster too.

[Currently]

Dhuze ... those were the prices I was referring to.

Did not know that the prices doubled and tripled.
At $90/thousand, there is no way one can reload and still save money.
I did pay 130 bucks/thousand before Xmas for a gift to my son.
I believe it was Guatemalan ammo and it performs pretty good.

What is driving those prices is the cost of metals, specifically copper.
Guess what, the bullet and brass prices will go up proportionately also.

As for powder measures, I have read article after article that says the
same thing and my experience backs it up. Volume measuring is as accurate
as weight measuring and takes up 10% of the time. I did not believe it and
I tried it out and proved that there is no difference.

A good powder measure will make loading a joy instead of a tedious activity.

The Winchester ball powders work great in powdermeasures.
The Dupont powders, because of the cylindrical form tend to not work so
well in some powder measures.

The trimmed back bullet case idea with a teaspoon handle silver soldered
to it is one that I used very often with the coarse Dupont powders.
I liked the 45-70 cases trimmed back for those measures.

[JohnnyV]

The best AR ammo that I've shot(for the price, obviously) was the Israeli ball surplus ammo. Back in the day we were getting it dirt cheap and still have a solid amount left over. It was pretty accurate also. I was shooting it in the EMRL 200 yard high power matches and never had an issue with it, although everyone always said the shit looked like the entire Isreali army marched over it before packaging

[636]

please dont shoot mil-spec thru that beautiful AR(break in maybe)...if your gonna buy,buy black hill blue,red box....best stuff for that heavy barreled upper.....1-9 twist,try 52 grain up thru 75 grain bullets.....you will never buy quality ammo for the price you can reload for(not that mil-spec is not quality,not to start a war of words)
currently the price for a 1000 black hill blue box in a 60 grain v-max is 480.00

when you break it down 60 grain v-max box of 100 is 13.99x 10= 139.90
brass....remington bag of 1000...167.00
1000 primers....22.00
last i know a keg (8 pounds)of varget was 85.00
=413.00

67.00 dollar savings....
that was threw midway only....pays to shop around....midsouth,natchez or several other venders are better....

[Tricky Mike]

...and once I start re-using that brass it gets even better.
Even if the cost savings was negligible, I'd still consider doing it for the more accurate loads and the experience gained in knowing what loads work best with my rifle.

[dhuze]

I reload for accuracy so I think I break even as far as cost for .223's. I can reload handgun ammo for about $7-8 a box of 50. I don't load handgun for accuracy so I buy cheaper components.
Even the 30-06 can be loaded cheaper then you can buy them for unless you get it from CMP.

For the .223 I use 69 grain sierra matchkings , CCI benchrest primers and AA2520.

Don't forget to get a good book on reloading data. You can find information on the internet from each powder manufacturer, but I like having a book handy also.

[sandman]

for what your looking to do (low volume) a dillon 550 would be a good start.

there are several on ebay

the only thing i like a single stage for is trimming brass.

[Currently]

Originally Posted by sandman

for what your looking to do (low volume) a dillon 550 would be a good start.

there are several on ebay

the only thing i like a single stage for is trimming brass.

I never got to owning one of those, all my case trimming was manual with
a hand crank. That and cleaning primer pockets are the most tedious and
laborious chores of reloading. After a couple of hundred brass cleanings, I
could barely use my hands.

Ebay is a great suggestion.

A lot of this equipment has limited lifetime warrantees so even if there
is something wrong with it, a polite letter to the manufacturer will result
in either free parts or a parts list with reasonable prices on it.

Dillon is a great company to do business with.
They stand behind their product and will work with you.

[sandman]

Originally Posted by Currently

I never got to owning one of those, all my case trimming was manual with
a hand crank. That and cleaning primer pockets are the most tedious and
laborious chores of reloading. After a couple of hundred brass cleanings, I
could barely use my hands.

been there and done that, never again.

this is going back a few years, but i found a place to get once fired lc brass cleaned, swaged, sized and lubed. for a little more than what i was paying for stuff that had been run through a m60.