[Karaya One]

Love this photo!

[banzairx7]

Thats gotta be one hell of a hitch on that thing. Funny as hell too. I guess it keeps the "rolling" mles off the car.

[ZX-12R]

Originally Posted by banzairx7

Thats gotta be one hell of a hitch on that thing. Funny as hell too. I guess it keeps the "rolling" mles off the car.

I'm guessing some sort of custom setup. I believe a Class V hitch has a maximum tongue weight of around 1200lbs which is pretty much as big as you can get before going to a 5th wheel. The Smart car weighs in at about 1600lbs with fuel.

[catch2otwo]

hahahah the irony there. buy a smart car to save tons of gas, but yet it sits on a hitch of a machine probably getting 9mpg of $5+ diesel fuel.

[schleppy]

I went to the dealer the other day and played around with a couple of them. My thoughts:

1.) Incredibly overpriced given the piss poor materials used throughout, and the overall tinnyness of the car. Shutting any of the doors made the car seem like it was going to crack in half.
2.) Three lug wheels and strange sized tires = getting hosed by the dealer if you need replacement for any of it
3.) The car requires premium fuel, which is ludicrous for a low-output three cylinder
4.) The gas mileage really isn't all that much better compared to a Honda Fit, or Mini Cooper. Both of which cost less, have WAY more power, and are more fun to drive.
5.) NO MANUAL!?! WTF?

Overall I'm really disappointed with the car. If it cost $10k or less it would be great, but for nearly 15-18k you can get MUCH more at that price, and still have a very tiny, very efficient car.

[banzairx7]

I've got a deposit on one. Why? Because its the only rear drive new car for under $15k. The fit and mini are both FWD which is awful to drive IMO. I also love small cars, the smaller the better. I drove one in germany a few months ago and really enjoyed driving it. The tires are normal sizes but staggered. Fronts being thinner than the rears. You can put rear rims on the front and all is good. Agree about the premium fuel. Why make an economy car use premium? I can see for the turbo overseas model but the the NA one? It is a manual but not at the same time. It has a clutch and standard 5 speed gear box. Its all computer controlled though. For the previous model there was aftermarket ECU's that halved the shift time. Just waiting for them to come out for this model.

[imkindafkedup]

someone is putting a busa engine in one of these and I guess its wicked fast. I'm sure you could put a turbo charged busa engine in just for shits n giggles.

[Manny]

Originally Posted by CMG241

agreed, my Mini will run circles around it and gets 44mpg on the hiway, all with a turbo charged 4 cyl.


(please don't mention a Honda Fit and a Cooper in the same sentence.)

Do you really get 44mpg on the highway? They are rated at 37, or so I thought ,and those are usually ideal conditions, no?

[banzairx7]

Originally Posted by imkindafkedup

someone is putting a busa engine in one of these and I guess its wicked fast. I'm sure you could put a turbo charged busa engine in just for shits n giggles.

YouTube - Smart with Hayabusa engine

[GixerJockey]

Originally Posted by banzairx7

YouTube - Smart with Hayabusa engine

Thats just silly...

[jnm988]

Originally Posted by GixerJockey

Thats just silly...

Seriously.... if you had that kind of money to piss away, why not buy a real sports car?

[banzairx7]

My guess is thats a $10k car max. You can get older smarts in europe for pretty cheap money. Hayabusa motors go for around $5k. If they had a bought a real sports car would it have been nearly as cool? No way.

[jnm988]

To each their own, I suppose!

[catch2otwo]

i dont see his mini getting 44 mpg as unrealistic. i did 55mph from boston to rochester a few weekends ago and got 44 mpg in my 2000 civic. i also agree the smart is way over priced for what it is. you could buy a used civic for 8k and get great mileage and buy a sweet bike for the 7k you have left over!

[jnm988]

I was reading an article about the top 5 things people do to waste gas.

Among them were
1) driving over 55MPH, for every 10 mph over 55 you drive, you lose 4mpg.
2) racing away from green lights. Apparently nailing the gas when the light turns green wastes a lot of gas
3) tailgating. The closer you are to the person in front of you, the more you have to slow down when they do, meaning you have to speed up more and use more gas
4) Idling. There's an old urban legend that it uses more gas to start the car than to idle. Apparently that was true in the old cars without FI, but now the amount of gas required to start a car is equivalent to 20 seconds of idling
5) driving a car that isn't warmed up. You're supposed to save all of your errands for the same day, driving a cold car is less efficient

I took a few of these to heart and I've noticed an extra 5 or so mpg.

[banzairx7]

Originally Posted by jnm988

I was reading an article about the top 5 things people do to waste gas.

Among them were
1) driving over 55MPH, for every 10 mph over 55 you drive, you lose 4mpg.
2) racing away from green lights. Apparently nailing the gas when the light turns green wastes a lot of gas
3) tailgating. The closer you are to the person in front of you, the more you have to slow down when they do, meaning you have to speed up more and use more gas
4) Idling. There's an old urban legend that it uses more gas to start the car than to idle. Apparently that was true in the old cars without FI, but now the amount of gas required to start a car is equivalent to 20 seconds of idling
5) driving a car that isn't warmed up. You're supposed to save all of your errands for the same day, driving a cold car is less efficient

I took a few of these to heart and I've noticed an extra 5 or so mpg.

Some of those are half truths. Like driving over 55 drops mileage. My car gets the same mileage @ 55 as it does @ 75. If I go 85 it drops like a rock. That has to do with the car going into "hi power" mode at 4300rpm. There is an engine efficiency curve they aren't taking into consideration when saying 55 is the magic number also. The flooring it from a stop I find to not work in real life. By all accounts I drive my car like an ass. I floor it from stops constantly, get on the brakes at the last second. Somehow I always beat even the old EPA ratings for every car Ive owned. Engines operate more efficiently when they aren't throttled. One of the reasons diesels do better for mileage, there's no throttle plate. Im not positive thats why my MPG numbers are good but its as good a theory as I've come up with so far.

[ChrisNoF4i]

Every time I notice my fuel efficiency starting to slip, I check the pressure in ALL my tires to make sure they are at optimal PSI. Then I clear the dead hookers out of my trunk and the MPGs just level themself off.

[banzairx7]

Ive never seen so many dead hookers.

Lord knows I have.

Bonus points for naming that movie.

[jnm988]

6-Ways-You-re-Wasting-Gas- Yahoo! Autos Article Page

That's the article... for what its worth.

[R1slowflyer]

Originally Posted by banzairx7

Ive never seen so many dead hookers.

Lord knows I have.

Bonus points for naming that movie.

Dirty Work!

[catch2otwo]

Originally Posted by banzairx7

Some of those are half truths. Like driving over 55 drops mileage. My car gets the same mileage @ 55 as it does @ 75. If I go 85 it drops like a rock. That has to do with the car going into "hi power" mode at 4300rpm. There is an engine efficiency curve they aren't taking into consideration when saying 55 is the magic number also. The flooring it from a stop I find to not work in real life. By all accounts I drive my car like an ass. I floor it from stops constantly, get on the brakes at the last second. Somehow I always beat even the old EPA ratings for every car Ive owned. Engines operate more efficiently when they aren't throttled. One of the reasons diesels do better for mileage, there's no throttle plate. Im not positive thats why my MPG numbers are good but its as good a theory as I've come up with so far.

a diesel does not get better mileage because of the lack of a "throttle plate" whatever that is. a diesel is a totally different engine.

[schleppy]

Originally Posted by banzairx7

My guess is thats a $10k car max. You can get older smarts in europe for pretty cheap money. Hayabusa motors go for around $5k. If they had a bought a real sports car would it have been nearly as cool? No way.

The Smartuki kit is 8k pounds, which is nearly $20k now. It's not cheap. Even just buying the parts and sourcing your own motor is pricey. Definitely not worth it.
Kit Prices - Smartuki

[KillBill]

Isn't it Ironic ?

Don't ya think

[banzairx7]

Originally Posted by catch2otwo

a diesel does not get better mileage because of the lack of a "throttle plate" whatever that is. a diesel is a totally different engine.

From wikipedia-

While higher compression ratio is helpful in raising efficiency, diesel engines are much more economical than gasoline (petrol) engines when at low power and at engine idle. Unlike the petrol engine, diesels lack a butterfly valve (throttle) in the inlet system, which closes at idle. This creates parasitic loss and destruction of availability on the incoming air, reducing the efficiency of petrol/gasoline engines at idle. In many applications, such as marine, agriculture, and railways, diesels are left idling unattended for many hours or sometimes days. These advantages are especially attractive in locomotives


I would add that its just not at idle. Any time the butterfly is choking the engine and creating a vacuum in the manifold you are losing efficiency. Its pumping losses really. Engines use less energy to turn over when they are compressing a cylinder full of air. Some motorcycle engine braking systems work off this principal.

[scottieducati]

- Yes there is an "efficiency curve" for many cars, typically they are set (tuned) for 65mph +/- 10 mph although it's more a matter of what RPM they're operating at and the speed is determined by your gearing (both final drive and gear selection). Older cars this used to be 55 mph (give or take)
- Above 75 mph the fluid dynamics of a gas (air) moving around the car take on more fluid behavior, and exert resistance at an (almost) exponentially increasing rate. A drastic example of which is the "190 mph" barrier many motorcycles cannot cross (no matter what your speedo says). It takes many, many HP to make a bike that tops out under 190, do 200 mph because the air resistance is so great.

Flooring it from a stop is all a matter of interpretation, however it has been proven (not only by the EPA) that the rate of acceleration from a stop affects fuel economy, but beyond the initial "nailing" of the throttle, it's more about smooth and constant application of throttle. e.g. if you nail it and then coast, it won't really matter vs. medium application, slowing, accel., repeat.

Diesel efficiency AT IDLE and LOW RPM is greater due to the throttle plate. Diesel efficiency (in terms of MPG ratings for a car, etc.) are better because the Diesel cycle is a more efficient cycle than the Otto cycle (gasline engine). You get a more complete burn, and a more powerful expansion stroke with an auto-ignition engine (diesel) than with a spark engine (gasoline). And, yes the cycle terminology and ignition sources are critical things to distinguish, as you CAN run gasoline in a Diesel cycle, compression-ignition engine. The US Army figured out how to burn gas, diesel, jp-8, just about anything in their multi-fuel, compression ignition engines in the 1940's for large trucks, so they could fuel it on just about anything they came across, and they used the specific gravity of the fuel to adjust the compression in the engines... pretty cool actually, considering "FlexFuel" vehicles are being thought of as a "new" idea now.

Also, for a last tid-bit, I currently drive a 1991 VW Jetta GLi (16 Valve) with 165k+ on the clock. I can milk 23 mpg in absolute stop / go city traffic (thru Somerville / Cambridge in rush hour, on city streets) by observing the driving tips above. I also can get up to 38 mpg on the highway, although that involves drafting trucks a bit... 35 mpg @ 65 mph is pretty much my norm.

Why the hell anyone would buy a Smart or Prius on the basis of fuel economy is beyond me, when a $4k car driven conservatively can get phenomenal fuel economy. Now if you think they're just cool cars, hey by all means

Don't get me started on how retarded a Prius is from an "environmental" standpoint... but I personally think the Smart is pretty cool for a city / urban car... but yeesh they're expensive! Maybe it'll fit in a spot smaller than my 17 y/o VW can, but I have big plastic bumpers to make the spot bigger for me