[scootertrash]

He won the GT race on Saturday, but was given the second place trophy.

How can someone who crashes out and causes a red flag end up winning the race ? I don't care what the rules say...it's a silly rule. Degsy should have gotten first place.

[bentbryan]

Totally lame. If you're leading the race past the halfway point, crash and cause a red flag, you should be a DNF. Not 1st place!

[R7]

Seems to go with the flow on how the LRRS is run, it's all in who you know
And sence when does pre-registration land you with a shitty grid possition on the back row? I pre registered 3 weeks prior and in both my races (not that it made a difference this weekend) i was grid in the last row

[need4speed]

Originally posted by R7
Seems to go with the flow on how the LRRS is run, it's all in who you know
And sence when does pre-registration land you with a shitty grid possition on the back row? I pre registered 3 weeks prior and in both my races (not that it made a difference this weekend) i was grid in the last row

I've pre-registered all of last year and was given shitty positions. It seems that most pre-register for the whole season thus securing a better grid position.

As far as Degs goes, this was brought up at one of the riders meetings last year and was supposed to be looked into. If the rider had been one of the Wood's boys would they have been awarded 1st . I think the answer is a big YES!!! Also the rider who caused the red flag was the champion in that class from last year winning the # 1 plate with a guaranteed pole position for the following race season. Who says that there isn't any favoritism at LRRS.

[Rye]

That's 4 licensed racers complaining with many more in the ranks that would agree. You will NOT get your points across on this forum. If there is something that needs to be corrected, it needs to be handled diplomatically through those who manage LRRS. The level of urgency they put into this matter will give you a clear understanding of the type of org. LRRS ireally is. Your money is at work there too...this would be roasting me. LRRS is nothing without the support of racers like you guys. To bad for Degs.

[R7]

Originally posted by need4speed
I've pre-registered all of last year and was given shitty positions. It seems that most pre-register for the whole season thus securing a better grid position.

Last year i had very good luck pre-registering and i was almost always on the front row with a pre-reg 3 weeks prior to the event

[R7]

Originally posted by Rye
If there is something that needs to be corrected, it needs to be handled diplomatically through those who manage LRRS.

That's almost funny

[need4speed]

Rye, I agree that this need to be addressed to the people in charge, and that venting on this forum will get us nowhere. Degs has spoken with one of the riders reps B.J. Worsham. It seems that when your the only game in town the rules can be bent to certain peoples advantage. I sure this situation isn't the first time since this was brought up last year at the riders meeting by Jerry Wood. With Jerry recovering from his injuries and not present for the start of this race season only time will tell if this complaint falls on deaf ears.

[Rye]

Yeah, it's the only show in town. But it's a visible show. A business. The playing field should be levelled for all involved.

[need4speed]

Originally posted by Rye
Yeah, it's the only show in town. But it's a visible show. A business. The playing field should be levelled for all involved.

See, we call it a business they call it a club (only when it comes to needing more money).

[R7]

Originally posted by need4speed
only time will tell if this complaint falls on deaf ears.

It's been falling on deaf ears for the 3 years i've been involved with going to the track listening to people and participating, why would you think that would change all of the sudden

At least i feel a little better now knowing i'm not the only one that feels this way

[Karaya One]

This is NOT run like a business at all!!!

Graham made a very good point in this regard last season in a letter he wrote to the LRRS mucky-mucks.

It's run more like a Monarchy, and the customer, the one who pays the bills, is a serf. He is a noisy, pain in the ass who should be happy to take whatever is given to him.

Our fees pay for the track, the insurance, the salaries, etc. And yet the racer is often treated like second-class citizens.

One more thing - if Degs last name was Wood, he's holding the first place trophy. Does anyone doubt this?????

[gmdboston]

Last year it was annouced that any one on the ground when the red flag came out would be a DNF. This was put in place to stop a rider who may have caused a red flag from scoring points. That said it takes some time for the corner workers to call in the numbers and get out a red flag and this rider may have been missed in the confusion. That said it is the rider's responsibility to check the results. All results are posted as provisional for 30 minutes after the posting. Riders can then make corrections or protests. After 30 minutes results are posted as final and no changes can be made. If a protest is filed in writing and denied, an appeal can be made and a meeting of referees, rider reps and any one involved will get a chance to speak. Degsy needed to check the results and file a protest. If he didn't, too bad.

There was a very big problem this weekend with new computers, software, and scoring system. Don't even start with what could have/would have/should have been done. The ONLY way to test the system completely is to run a race weekend. It may take several race weekends to work out all the bugs, so try to be patitent and help the stafff by pointing out problems and helping with a solution.

[gsxrjack]

sad to see some things havnt changed much at loudon since the days of aamrr.....I know this rule has come up before and the way i read the rules is that any bike that crashes is considered a DNF and should not be counted in the final standings:

from the 2004 LRRS rulebook:

" Should the race be considered complete
any and all crashed riders will not be entered in the final results. The crashed riders will be considered a DNF. Scoring of a red flagged race will
be from the last fully completed lap. A lap is considered complete only when the leader crosses start/finish to start the next lap or end the race."

so while Degs did get screwed i agree with GMDBOSTON that a protest should have been filed right away and he should have been awarded the win.........

either way, great riding Degsy

[Degsy]

Thanks for the words guys.

Here's the story:

First let me say that I have gone from 6 races a weekend to 2, GTU and the dash for cash. GTU is a championship that is possibly within my reach if the stars align and I need every point I can get.

I was chasing Peter Douvris (last year's GTU champ) for 13 laps. We were both on wets on a fast drying track, trying to conserve tires (we were way ahead of the 3rd placed rider). I could see his spotter on pit row telling him how far behind I was (simple arm gestures "This big" style). I KNEW I could pass Peter at almost any time I wanted, but I didn't want to pass until the last lap. Anyone who knows him will tell you that you don't pass him and expect him not to push the limits passing you back and I didn't want to get into a scrap on wets on a dry track. My plan was to pass him in 9-10-11 last lap and take the win.

We passed the start-finish line for lap 13 with Peter .7 seconds in front of me and as we went through turn two he hi-sided and I went between him and his spinning bike. He was lying right on the racing line. I got all the way through the bowl and to turn 9 when the red flag came out. I thought I had the win.

I got back to the pits and got my wet leathers off and changed into my street clothes and got a phone call from Kevin Fegan asking me how I did in my race. I told him what happened and he said to me (quote) "I know how things work up there and you did NOT get the win, go and protest"

I went down to the media center and sure enough, the result was shown as final and I got second. I complained and after 10 minutes of them discussing it I was told that the rule is now that if you fall and cause a red flag you still get the win if you crossed the line in the last lap in first place. That's how it is now, end of discussion.

I spoke to BJ (riders rep) about it and he said the same thing.

I'm not wasting my breath or my time in pushing it further as I know I won't get anywhere. I went and spoke with Peter in his motor home and congratulated him on the win and said that next time I'll try to pass sooner.

My wife picked up my second place trophy for me as I would have tossed it in the garbage right in front of them if I picked it up myself.

I wonder what would have happened if it was the dash for cash?

I don't buy that it was a 'lost in the confusion" thing. I cornerworked on Sunday and I knew who the leaders were. If I had seen a leader crash and red flag a race I would have called in his number and said that he DNF'd in the lead and should be out of the standings. I'm sure the turn two people could have easily done this also.

Anyhoo, GTU championship standings so far are

Peter Douvris 16
Derek Sinclair 13

http://www.lrrsracing.com/2005/results04232405/sat1.pdf

[Degsy]

By the way, Peter (GMD) I saw the 'incident' and you have nothing to blame yourself for. I was in turn 4 and saw the whole thing. You had no way to avoid the collision at all.

derek

[s a x m a n]

wow man, sorry to hear that .. that really sucks

[Jaynnus]

I am confused...cause we were listening to the cornerworkers on the scanner...and it was specifically asked if the red flag was before or after that particular rider being in the racing line.

The corner workers replied that he crashed before the flag....but this indicated (to me)that he was not the cause of the red flag but down at the same time as a red flag.

Either way....Degsy was robbed

[Nikon]

that sux degs. Good racing.

[gsxrjack]

wow, still sucks...so now the 2005 rule should read:

"Should the race be considered complete any and all crashed riders will not be entered in the final results. The crashed riders will be considered a DNF....

......unless, the leader of the last lap of the race caused the red flag, he will be awarded the win....... (or something like that)

just doesnt sound right to me, but again, i realize you dont want to waste your time etc...

i use to race with Brian Kent (i think hes still racing and dont know if hes calmed down out there at all) but he also was a person you didnt want to have behind you on the last lap so I know where you are comming from in your desicion to wait...

edit , had you mixed up with someone else......

[Degsy]

Originally posted by gsxrjack


edit , had you mixed up with someone else......

Who'd you mix me up with?

d

[Paul_E_D]

This goes around and around. They have to go back one lap to score it. How else would they know who was in what position at the moment the red flag flew?

This even happened in the AMA last year and everyone screamed foul when they awarded Duhamel's teammate the win despite him having been in 2nd on the lap prior to the red flag. THAT seemed arbitrary.

Damned if you do, damend if you don't. One rider is going to be pissed.

I'm unclear on the wording of the rule as well. Perhaps they mean riders who crashed on the laps PRIOR to the red flag are DNF???

That said, I've always seen the decision go to the leader of the lap BEFORE the red flag. That is the way it's always been done. It definitely sucks for someone in Degsy's position.

Good luck this year Degs!

[gmdboston]

Unless I am remembering incorectly, Don announced at the Banquet that ALL riders that were not running, or scored on the prior lap would be considered a DNF. For years we used to look at the race and if you caused the red flag by being stupid, you were out. This would mean that if you got caught up in some thing you could not avoid, like a blown motor right in front of you, or a rider sliding under you're wheels, you did not get DQ'd. It left the rule too open for favoritism and ambiguity. The biggest problem was what if you crashed just after as red flag was being shown? Did you cause the flag, or did you just get caught out. Degsy, you went to the right people, but they may not have remembered teh new rule. I would send an email to Don ask what his intentions were in this case. It may be too late, but becuase you did talk to BJ you may have grounds for protest still. It's well worth the time even if all we get is clarification of the rule.

[oreo_n2]

*note to self:
Racing strategy #2389: Get in lead for next to last lap and crash immediately upon commencing the final lap in order to secure victory.

[Paul_E_D]

Peter, what's tripping me up is that the race winner WAS running on the prior lap. Shouldn't it be anyone not running after the red flag is a DNF?