[Rick Lee]

I saw this on the NEAR group thought i would share it.

Don never said ALL HJC's are excluded, and never meant that. He specifically talked about their low-priced line(s), and noted that he contacted their distributor, who pointed out they are *specifically* precluded from being used for competition.

As Micky's post points out, this is not as "knee jerk" a reaction as some would think: The negative history against low-priced HJC's has been building. (They were discussed at the meeting I attended in January.) At the risk of putting words into Don and Jerry's mouths, the final straw happened (a) at the first event of the year, (b) when Jerry was in the middle of moving to Florida, (c) Don was dealing with major computer problems, (caused, ultimately, by the flood at the track last October) and (d) within two weeks time of another event.

***I have asked for clarification on what helmets will be legal *** ... like you, I'm waiting to find out, but feel confident in choosing the model Ted Temple went to after he got hurt.

We're all aware of how statistics lie ... Jerry and Don no less than any of us. But they have access to more information than we do about the specific incidents at LRRS, (and may have talked with other safety directors around the country) and they have many more years of experience in general, but in specific about dangerous helmets.

* They are not trying to force us to buy a specific model/brand.
* They are not trying to bump up helmet sales for track/online vendors.
* They do not have a grudge against a particular manufacturer.



They simply don't want US to get hurt.
They decided to ACT, and not to wait until another rider is hurt.



They didn't pick when the straw would fall.

*********************************************
Two quick asides, relevant to this post:

* Don wrote NEAR saying the April results wouldn't get posted online until he could get back to fix the computers. Since nobody else has, I'd like to thank him and whomever else worked on it for getting them up over this weekend ... just as he said he would. This Saturday's results are also up.

* He also mentioned that LRRS will go to on-line registration. I didn't catch when ... frankly, it wasn't important to me.

Now, before every "detractor" goes spouting off about how they suggested it 2,3, or even more years ago, I'll point out that I started ranting -- yeah, ranting -- against LRRS management almost 9 years ago when the first NEAR-list came online. I didn't/don't claim to be the first. I have continued to push for it all along.

The difference (from me and those who no longer race at LRRS but feel it's appropriate to post to every penny-ante website under the sun just how badly LRRS is managed) is that I got involved in the process. I listened to what the management had to say, and while I didn't necessarily agree with their opinions, on the whole the explanations were defendable.

If YOU would like to become more involved in what is going on LRRS, talk to them ... they welcome it. Don's contact info is pretty much right in the middle of the homepage. In the past, when he's made themselves available at specific times at the track, people rarely IF EVER show up. (One summer, NO ONE showed up.) Instead, people choose to write rants.

Work together, not as adversaries.

*********************************************
If you are wearing a cheap HJC, you have some (admittedly limited) information with which to make a decision on a new helmet. If that's not enough, chill out and wait for more ... as Don noted, it is coming.

This is not a bad thing, just a new thing, and I offer this analogy: If a side cover shows a propensity for splitting open and oiling the track, we ban it. A few riders are upset, but eventually accept it as a cost of racing.

Everyone else is happy. Or could care less.

The circumstances of this ruling are EXACTLY the same, except that it affects more riders. But even if it affected every one of us, I still maintain it should be done.

So stop second-guessing the people who have seen too many friends and good riders get thrown for a loop. This is a tough situation to address ... but would you really rather they NOT? Threats to quit racing because of new safety mandates do not help. They didn't help when leathers were required, or when single-piece (or zippered) suits were required, or when helmets had to be full-faced, or bikes had to be safety-wired, or catch-bottles had to be mounted, or medical forms had to be on file, etc, etc.

This is an organic, ever-changing process, and it's not always seamless.

B.J. Worsham

[Montee73]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
uh... are you saying someone said the accidencts were caused by HJC?

LOL, No, they sayed that people'z sponges have been damaged due to the lack of protection provided by HJC helmet's but did not state the style or model...

[Degsy]

Originally posted by Rick Lee
* He also mentioned that LRRS will go to on-line registration. I didn't catch when ... frankly, it wasn't important to me.

Now, before every "detractor" goes spouting off about how they suggested it 2,3, or even more years ago, I'll point out that I started ranting -- yeah, ranting -- against LRRS management almost 9 years ago when the first NEAR-list came online. I didn't/don't claim to be the first. I have continued to push for it all along.

The difference (from me and those who no longer race at LRRS but feel it's appropriate to post to every penny-ante website under the sun just how badly LRRS is managed) is that I got involved in the process. I listened to what the management had to say, and while I didn't necessarily agree with their opinions, on the whole the explanations were defendable.

If YOU would like to become more involved in what is going on LRRS, talk to them ... they welcome it. Don's contact info is pretty much right in the middle of the homepage. In the past, when he's made themselves available at specific times at the track, people rarely IF EVER show up. (One summer, NO ONE showed up.) Instead, people choose to write rants.

Work together, not as adversaries.


B.J. Worsham

Now, I wonder who prompted those remarks? NESR can be useful for something, huh?

derek

[SBT Deb]

I know there has been some question as to suitability in Helmets for racing etc...HJC seems to be the topic at hand. There are some race tracks that have said they will not allow HJC Helmets on the race track. There is a lot of debate on what is ok or not ok. To give to a better idea of what I am talking about, my dealer cost on an HJC High end Helmet is $42.95. Common retail is anywhere from $179.99-$250.00. Look at my COST of the helmet. I can tell you that is not the case when it comes to the Helmet brands I carry which are Arai, AGV, and Suomy. There is a huge difference on how impact absorbtion is handled. For instance when your head its the ground at the moment of impact where is the energy distributed? Well in Arai, Suomy and AGV, Shoei Helmets the impact is distributed throughout the entire helmet. You hit your head on the left side, the HJC distributed that energy to the point where you hit the ground on the left side. You then hit your head on the left side in an Arai , Suomy, AGV, or Shoei and the energy is distributed Throughout the entire helmet. That makes a huge difference when you talk about head injuries or the possibility of a head injury. The Helmets I offer have a few selections on shell size. I only sell the top of the line Race Helmets. I want to also talk about size and fit. If you have not ever had a human being meaure your head for a helmet before you need to have it done. You can suffer head injuries in ANY Helmet if you are not fitted properly.

Most people try on a new helmet and say ok this feels comfortable, it feels good. Almost 85% of people I sell or have sold a helmet to are sized improperly and are wearing a helmet that is too big. When you try on a new helmet it should feel snug in the cheek area almost a little on the too snug side. The top of the helmet when on should feel like it is surrounding your entire head with no gaps. I will be holding a helmet fitting seminar at the next Race weekend. You do not have to spend $600 on a superior race helmet. You do have other options without sacrificing brain matter.

Regardless of what people think Don was saying, most importantly is that they want more info. They have each and every person's safety in mind. They aren't saying that you need to drop everything you are doing and run out and buy an Arai. What they are saying is that they want everyone to pay attention in how they are sized, the quality, and the track record, so that they can make a better imformed final decision. To do that they will not allow HJC Helmets to be worn until a final decision is made.

Deb

[benVFR]

Email SNELL... maybe if enough people ask they will make a press release or something indicating whether they have any stats from other tracks to back this up.

I emailed them at the recommended address but who knows if they answer the emails.

The address is "info@smf.org".

AC-11 series, AC-12 series, AC-3, AC-X3, CL-15, CL-31, CL-SP, CL-X5, CS-5, FG-12, Force Carbon, FXRG, HQ-1, and Intake helmets are all listed as passing the brand new M2005 standard although the certification list is now a year old.

[WebCrush]

Originally posted by SBT Deb
To give to a better idea of what I am talking about, my dealer cost on an HJC High end Helmet is $42.95. Common retail is anywhere from $179.99-$250.00. Look at my COST of the helmet.

um, HJC's high end helmets retail for $450

[SBT Deb]

Well Adam I am not going to get into a fight over what someone else may charge for a high end HJC. I know of at least 6 dealers in my area alone who sell the highest ranked HJC Helmet for 279.99. According to the buyer street riders will pay that when full retail for an ARAI or similar starts at $529.99. In any even regardless read my last passage. They want to help keep riders safe therefore they will not permit the helmets end of story until they get more information to make a good imformed decision instead of a hasty one. I will tell you what I think it is the first time a decision at LRRS has not only made sense but is being approached in a smart, and ethical way.

[OreoGitorio]

Originally posted by WebCrush
um, HJC's high end helmets retail for $450

uh, yeah, for the ONE carbon fiber AC-12... get the regular AC-12 (STILL TOP OF THE LINE HJC) and it's advertized ON THE HJC WEBSITE for $229 for a solid, $279 for the super dooper Yikes paint scheme... only difference is one has a carbon fiber shell

[Rick Lee]

Watch out Pete this Adam kid just might take your crown for being the biggest know it all pain in the ass....*stirs the pot*

[OreoGitorio]

I gave up the fight for that crown to him along time ago.

[gonzo6]

in this corner...
you know the rest

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by SBT Deb
There are some race tracks that have said they will not allow HJC Helmets on the race track.

Which tracks?

[WebCrush]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Which tracks?

I'm rather curious to this as well, because last I checked usually the org renting the track makes those rules.

[need4speed]

For those that like the fit of the HJC helmets I have a link with prices from New Enough . The AC -12 prices are even low enough for the Cheap Bastid Racers

HJC price list from new enough

[WebCrush]

From the HJC website:

All our racers wear out of the box AC Series including pros like; Ben Spies, Aaron Yates, Jason Pridmore, Nathan Ramsey, Broc Hepler, Nick Wey, Ryan Mills, Matt Buyten, etc.

[a13x]

Some of these comments make me laugh... I especially like the 'banning helmet brand XX so that Arai sells more'.. Yea that's exactly how sponsorship and relationships work inside the Industry.....



For what it's worth. I've bought two Arai Quantum/f's for a grand total of $400. Both with bling-bling Okada paintjobs. One was brand new never used, the other was slightly used.

$250 for never used
$140 for slightly used (included dark shield, a $80 value)

Shop around and cruise the Classifieds on the various MSG Boards.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by a13x
(included dark shield, a $80 value)

This is why I will never own an Arai. $80 tinted shield? Does anyone really believe that the $80 tinted shield is 4x better than the $20 shields you can buy for an HJC? And most other helmets for that matter. Arai seems to live in their own little price bubble where sticking the Arai name on it equates to 2-4x the price.

[a13x]

Actually I think I mis-typed. I believe the Iridium faceshield are $80 and the dark ones are $50...

My bad.

FWIW: Arai shield have two closable vents in them, which other shields do not. That adds to the build / tooling costs as it's much more involved to make a shield like that, than a standard one.

Seriously thou.. I got ROBBED for that $140 Quantum/f


Oh yea, I also bought my g/f a barely used (aka: Mint) Arai Quantum/e Edwards Replica (with a $80 Iridium blue shield) for $200.

So that's 3 Arai's for... $590, including a smoke and Iridium shield.

[OreoGitorio]

Some companies put alot more R&D into their shields than others... look at the price of sunglasses out there... I mean, shit, I just bought some 180 dollar Smith shades (for alot less than that though ) but typically optically correct sunglasses with impact resistance go for 50 bucks & up, easy... why should a helmet shield be any different? It's expected to stop rocks & debris at some pretty good speeds, right?

[gonzo6]

not to mention arai has their name and logo in or on every racing game on the market...that has to drive up prices

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by a13x
Some of these comments make me laugh... I especially like the 'banning helmet brand XX so that Arai sells more'.. Yea that's exactly how sponsorship and relationships work inside the Industry.....

Come on Alex, you don't think sponsors expect that their products will be pushed a little? Who do you think paid for that brand new Arai lid Eric Wood is sporting? You and all the other Arai owners, through marked up helmet prices to pay for sponsorships. Sure, Arai has a reputation for being the best. Pay enough sponsorship money out to get half the industry shilling your product, your product can get that reputation too. All paid for by the end user, who rationalizes that his helmet costs twice as much so it must be safer.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
Some companies put alot more R&D into their shields than others... look at the price of sunglasses out there... I mean, shit, I just bought some 180 dollar Smith shades (for alot less than that though ) but typically optically correct sunglasses with impact resistance go for 50 bucks & up, easy... why should a helmet shield be any different? It's expected to stop rocks & debris at some pretty good speeds, right?

Ok how about you and me go down to the batting cages with our respective helmets and stand in front of the fastball machine, we'll see whose shield cracks first. At least that would be more scientific than saying "it costs more, therefore it must be better".

[gonzo6]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
Ok how about you and me go down to the batting cages with our respective helmets and stand in front of the fastball machine, we'll see whose shield cracks first. At least that would be more scientific than saying "it costs more, therefore it must be better".

yea, ok mr mythbuster

[OreoGitorio]

softball slowpitch?

[Honclfibr]

BTW I'm not trying to be down on Penguin or Jerry Wood for pushing Arais. When we were down at VIR cornerspeed was shilling for Scorpion helmets like they were made from titanium. I'm just saying that helmet reputations are bought and paid for, and I'll trust an independent non profit testing facility like SNELL to tell me which helmet to buy long before I trust Jerry Wood or Aaron Stevenson.