[scootertrash]

For those of you who were not at the track this weekend, they announced that they have banned HCJ helmets at LRRS from now on. (starting next race weekend). You won't pass tech with one.
There were lots of questions asked, and not many answers yet, but the basic message was if you have a HJC, go out and spend some money on a good RACE helmet.
There should be an announcement on LRRSRACING.com at some point.
I just didn't want anyone to show up for the next race weekend and not be able to race for lack of an approved helmet.

Oh...and online registration is coming...maybe later this year...more likely next year.

[bigred875]

[Paul_E_D]

The last TEN serious head injuries have been in HJC plastic shell helmets. I can't really argue with their motivation to ban them, and other plastic shelled cheapo lids.

I'm sure many will whine though. Must be a conspiracy! It couldn't possibly be a concern for our health... no way. Kick backs, must be the kickbacks!

[legalspeed]

Thank goodness for Jerry and LRRS.

I switched at Daytona last October after Jerry and LRRS told us to LAST YEAR.

[bigred875]

how many racers use hjc vs. a big dollar helmet. I'm guess there are a lot more people running HJC's. And if a racers is more prone to falling down which brand do you suppose he will use? A $600 one or a $100 one that will protect their head as good but without the bells and whistles....

the only question they should be asked is ..Does it meet the saftey rewquirements for the track...now i am not an expert but i was pretty sure that at LRRS requires a SNELL approval right? HJC meets that...whats the problem?

i dont care what the motive...it's a bullshit move

[bigred875]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
The last TEN serious head injuries have been in HJC plastic shell helmets. I can't really argue with their motivation to ban them, and other plastic shelled cheapo lids.

I'm sure many will whine though. Must be a conspiracy! It couldn't possibly be a concern for our health... no way. Kick backs, must be the kickbacks!

We put our best materials and features into our AC's including exotic shell materials like the advanced composite fiberglass / Dyneema weave or full application carbon fiber,

http://www.hjchelmets.com/products.htm

[brewmaster]

Most racers will spend big $$$ on things that make them go faster (or think that it will). So it would seem intelligent to wrap the thing that really makes you go faster with the best protection available. Or at least that makes sense to me.

So I agree completely with LRRS's decision to ban them given the actual results they have seen at their track. Whether you like them or not it does reflect a concern for the racers, not a requirement to buy an expensive helmet. Just my two cents.

[bigred875]

it is the most popular helmet brand there is...of course more people are going to be running them...

http://www.smf.org/

which other brands on the list of approved helmets are now banded?

Does lrrs have more data then snell? maybe they should certify helmets then....

[WebCrush]

They're banning the CL's, not the AC's, which is their mid-grade helmet

The limited survey on the NEAR list had HJC use as high as 30% and the majority by far.

[Paul_E_D]

Bigred, your math is funny. It's not a numbers game, it's people's lives.

Anyway, I would imagine that ten head serious injuries represents a disproportionate number to have occurred in one brand. There just aren't that many serious head injuries to make this number insignificant. I also know that they actually record data about helmet brands and injuries in the medical center. If they see a pattern, I think it's worth acting on it.

I have read the study that argues for the cheaper helmets, but our environment provides a "different" test. We should respond to trends like this.

Marketing doesn't make a helmet safe.

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
Bigred, your math is funny. It's not a numbers game, it's people's lives.

You did not just say that. Won't *somebody* think of the children? Oh, wait, we're all adults here. Maybe we can think for ourselves?

As for the math, if the majority of riders who crash are wearing HJC helmets, then the majority of head injuries may also be expected to occur in HJC helmets. If the math doesn't support that, then let's see these head injury statistics. Maybe we can get the numbers from other tracks as well, to increase the sample size? NHIS is not unique in head injury statistics, a helmet that is not safe at NHIS should not be safe anywhere.

If I was shown properly collected data with a reasonable sample size that showed a likelihood of injury in one helmet type/brand, I'd make the decision for myself not to use it because my head is worth that, and think that the majority of racers up there would as well. But what we're getting instead is statements like "a lot of head injuries with HJC helmets" and the old "do you really think a $100 helmet protects as well as a $600 helmet?" That's not a study, that's a witch hunt.

[bigred875]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
You did not just say that. Won't *somebody* think of the children? Oh, wait, we're all adults here. Maybe we can think for ourselves?

As for the math, if the majority of riders who crash are wearing HJC helmets, then the majority of head injuries may also be expected to occur in HJC helmets. If the math doesn't support that, then let's see these head injury statistics. Maybe we can get the numbers from other tracks as well, to increase the sample size? NHIS is not unique in head injury statistics, a helmet that is not safe at NHIS should not be safe anywhere.

If I was shown properly collected data with a reasonable sample size that showed a likelihood of injury in one helmet type/brand, I'd make the decision for myself not to use it because my head is worth that, and think that the majority of racers up there would as well. But what we're getting instead is statements like "a lot of head injuries with HJC helmets" and the old "do you really think a $100 helmet protects as well as a $600 helmet?" That's not a study, that's a witch hunt.

[bentbryan]

If you think a $100 helmet will protect you as much as a $600 helmet would I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...

By and large you get what you pay for, like it or not.

[WebCrush]

Originally posted by bentbryan
If you think a $100 helmet will protect you as much as a $600 helmet would I have a bridge I'd like to sell you...

By and large you get what you pay for, like it or not.

If you think much of the price of a $600 helmet goes towards any more safety features rather than a fancy paint-job, 'cool' bling bling features, and marketing I have another bridge for you.

[bentbryan]

I didn't say that. But some of it does...

and if HJC is soooo great, how come you wear a Suomy?

[WebCrush]

Originally posted by bentbryan
I didn't say that. But some of it does...

and if HJC is soooo great, how come you wear a Suomy?

I didn't say HJC was great, but I can also say I've never spent $600 on a helmet.

I'm sponsored by Suomy and have been since I helped get them approved by LRRS, so thats the brand I wear.

Dealer cost on top of the line Suomy helmets are less than half the retail price and when they become discontinued or sizes they need to unload they can typically be had at $100-$150.

And thats for 'top line' Spec-1r models, Gunwinds are even less and they are the 'mid-tier' model. Gunwinds used to be their top tier helmet before the Spec-1r came out. Very similar helmets though, just lil changes like venting, visor change systems, and overall shell shaping.

[SVRACER01]

imselling ARAI stickers for $10 a peice

[benVFR]

Don't most of you spend $600/season on beer?

I don't know about Arai but you can get Shoei RF-1000s for something like $250 online if you stick to a solid color.

There is lots of other stuff reasonably priced.

[HBerry]

I'm not really happy about it since I have two HJC helmets (one for street and one for track). If it passes SNELL and DOT how can it be less safe than a ARAI?

[Paul_E_D]

Go into the medical center and ask them to see the data. I'm willing to bet that most HJC wearers have the AC-10 or whatever the better lid is. But arguing about numbers we don't have is stupid. At some point you either trust the safety director or you don't.

I certainly don't think the club (business) can or should make decisions by consensus, or even majority. That's not always the best way. A small group of people with LOADS of experience are surely better able to manage than a huge group of meatheads, hotheads, idiots, rookies, professionals, engineers, racers, smart guys, keyboard jockeys etc.

For the record, this HAS to be the stupidest issue to waste time and energy on. Get a good helmet and race!

[HBerry]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
Go into the medical center and ask them to see the data. I'm willing to bet that most HJC wearers have the AC-10 or whatever the better lid is. But arguing about numbers we don't have is stupid. At some point you either trust the safety director or you don't.

I certainly don't think the club (business) can or should make decisions by consensus, or even majority. That's not always the best way. A small group of people with LOADS of experience are surely better able to manage than a huge group of meatheads, hotheads, idiots, rookies, professionals, engineers, racers, smart guys, keyboard jockeys etc.

For the record, this HAS to be the stupidest issue to waste time and energy on. Get a good helmet and race!

I don't think it is that stupid. If I crash next race weekend, I'm out 120 bucks on a helmet. However now that I have to buy a SHOEI or ARAI, if I crash next race weekend I'm out $350 bucks on a helmet. If I crash 3 times, I have spent more on helmets than on a bike!

[Paul_E_D]

tough.

[HBerry]

Originally posted by Paul_E_D
tough.

[bigred875]

no it really isnt...this could be a huge issue for some racers....this means that guys will potentially have to go out and buy over $1k worth of helmets because some yahoo with an opinion made a judgement call... what kind of data was contrusted to make this decision..just the fact the people got head injuries and happened to be wearing HJC helmets...

and people do have good hjc helmets and should be allowed to race..

there are plenty of reasons why HJC helemts cost less then the other ones..and cutting corners in saftey is not one of them...

the biggest is they only use 1 shell for their model lines and size them with the foam....while arai has several different shells...nevermind the bs bling features...

i hope someone does contact HJC....this is crap

[legalspeed]

"I'm guess there are a lot more people running HJC's."

People that guess on the race track don't last long.