[Stupidhawk007]

Originally posted by Honclfibr
I think the system we have is stupid. We need a more comprehensive system that takes into account experience level, wins, lap times, and standings in order to determine the class you run in.

I propose the following function:

F(Class) {Novice, Amateur, Expert} = Integral[for all x, where x = number of races entered] (Standing (Race(x) - Race(x -1) / Races Entered) * (Years LRRS has existed) / (Years you have been racing) + (Bike Displacement in CC) / (Maximum Theoretical Bike Displacement) - (Shock Upgrade ? 50 : 0) + (Pegs ? Sweet : Dude) * differential (Races Left / Time elapsed since the epoch).

No, wait, that's dumb. Let's just do whatever we're doing now. Racing is fun, even when you suck and don't win.

I like that equation. Lets either use that or coolness factors. Red mohawk? COOL-you advance All black gear with gold face shield? COOL-you advance EX500? NOT COOL-no advances for you Sorry ptwinners.

[OreoGitorio]

Originally posted by Stupidhawk007
EX500? NOT COOL-no advances for you Sorry ptwinners.

see avatar... now see yours

[Doc]

First...I am an absolute friggin Novice! I have only done 2 trackdays... Hell I am not even a racer yet!

I am pissed! I thought ALL the racers at NHIS were supportive as I have not run into anyone who is not.

After reading just 3 posts on the NEAR site I am livid at the "Experts". Who do they think they are? "It is all about white plates and black numbers" :WTF:

Screw the Hawk, How do I get into the Expert class with my Ducati?

I'll show those snobby bastards! (Well at least I will try)

I mean really :WTF:

Please someone tell me I am wrong and that everyone is supportive and friendly at the track.

I guess I have just been disallusioned. :sad:

[Doc]

Ok so I read some more and it is not as bad as I thought.


Is it?


If I have over stepped someone hand me a cup of STFU.


I am not going to let a couple snobs (or even a little hazing) stop me from winning the NOVICE CHAMPIONSHIP!













What? You say there isn't a NOVICE CHAMPIONSHIP?!!??

JESUS H CHRIST!!! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!


(That last part was just for funny emphasis) :LOL:



I agree Novice and Amatuer are stepping stones but you still have to shoot for the top of the first stone to get to the next one quicker.
What happens when you don't have enough new guys coming in and everyone is an Expert? Just run expert races?

[Honclfibr]

Originally posted by Doc
Screw the Hawk, How do I get into the Expert class with my Ducati?

The quickest way is to find an current Expert in the class you want to run, kill them, and make a suit out of their skin.

Otherwise, you've gotta start at the bottom. The fast guys progress pretty quickly, though it helps if you're on a bike that can run competitively in a lot of classes.

If you're a slow guy on an EX, you'll probably be a Novice until the end of time.

[Paul_E_D]

Racers are GENERALLY a really supportive community when people ask for help or are in obvious need. I've seen a lot of incredible generosity, even from those preposterous, snobby experts.

On the otherhand, racers are egotistical, highly competitive, driven, perfectionists. If you think you're not, you'll probably get eaten alive in this community.

One thing I find refreshing about racing is that when the flag drops, the bullshit stops. If you're beating these guys, let that do the talking. If not, then ignore them. (so you basically need to ignore them either way)

There are jerks in every community. One of the most "american" traits I can think of is the desire to cut down you're competitors. Our whole sense of humor is based on the cut down. Thick skin will get you pretty far in racing.

[s a x m a n]

as in any activity the more experianced group/class always has a different viewpoint about the lower ranks.

it shouldn't be a surprise, or unexpected. EX is the true goal (atleast for me). I know damn well, than I may never run at the front of the EX class while wood, greenwood and co are still around ... but its still the goal.

the NV class was fun, but when I got to AM then the racing began! What a difference it was ... so I can only imagine what it will be like in the EX class. Experience is the best way to gain knowledge IMO, and many (not all) of those EXs have been through the ranks, and I think its ok if they don't feel like they need to treat the other classes at equals.

They don't even need to say anything, because on the track many of them show you your place while in the race. I can't count the number of times I got passed by experts this year (sometimes twice in a GT race) and I was just in awe and humbled by the way they raced.

They earned that spot and they know what it took to get there ... I'm just glad I get to play in the same sandbox as them and hope that someday I can be up there playing with them ... because it looks like alot of fun!

In the meantime, I'm having a BLAST because I have friends that I battle with all year long, and another one from my pit will be joining the AM class next year and the three of us are going to have a great time pushing eachother ... but the ultimate goal is the EX class ... i became a much better racer when I moved to AM from NV, and just wonder what I will learn when I move to EX.

The move to EX will be a long haul and I don't see myself being there anytime soon, but its where I would like to be ... because those guys/gals are racing and it looks like a hell of time!

[hessogood]

People new to the sport do not tell experts of 10 years how things should be run. I see too many people show up at the track and think the world needs to bow for them, for example spectators on this board who seem to know how the associations should run cornerworking. LRRS has been around a very long time, I think they have a better idea how to run things than someone that got their race license last year and isn't getting enough pats on the back.

[Paul_E_D]

Oh. last word of advice, Stay off the NEAR list if you want a supportive environment. That thing has been a feeding frenzy for YEARS.

Edit: Well said Jay.

[s a x m a n]

Originally posted by hessogood
People new to the sport do not tell experts of 10 years how things should be run. I see too many people show up at the track and think the world needs to bow for them, for example spectators on this board who seem to know how the associations should run cornerworking. LRRS has been around a very long time, I think they have a better idea how to run things than someone that got their race license last year and isn't getting enough pats on the back.

i feel lucky to be able to play ... and I'm not there to make any waves as I have no been there long enough. One season, that is all ... what the hell do I know?

[a13x]

Lucky for me I'm not new to the sport, or racing.

[Doc]

I am with you guys about needing a tough skin and I don't mined being hazed or look on as a "probie" or "rookie" (been there done that, got the t-shirt)

Thanks for the insight. It is clear to me now and I agree. Being an expert takes alot of work and talent, they don't need to think of Am and certainly not novice as equals, but they don't need to look down on them either.
Am's and novice should look up to those guys but they shouldn't if they get shit on.

I am just hoping we will all be one big happy family. Of course nothing says you can't show your "lil brother" who is boss on the track.

[KB]

I like to race, run the track, learn, win, and yeah maybe someday I will be an expert but for now I am having a frikin blast. The racing community as a whole is a great thing to belong to.

I'll do my time, keep an open ear, and when my time comes if it ever does so be it. Until then I will let the organizaton tell me how they want it run. I will play by the rules, or take my toys and go home. Simple really. I like the challenge.

KB

[SVRACER01]

i think it would be nice to hand out some NV champs. it gives you something to shoot for. but more than anything i would like to see LRRS give back to ALL classes.... not just the EXs. i think some LRRS $$ would be nice. and i think that when people like SBT offer to do a DFC for NV and LRRS says "if the EXs cant have the $$ then we arent doing it" i think thats BS. its bad enough that we dont get any help from the different manufactuers (tires and such) unless you are AM/EX.

if youre gonna complain about "sandbaggers/ cherrypickers then lets complain about people like greenwood and the other woods and the same people that win all the time in EX. when are they gonna move up?

[hessogood]

Originally posted by SVRACER01
i think it would be nice to hand out some NV champs. it gives you something to shoot for. but more than anything i would like to see LRRS give back to ALL classes.... not just the EXs. i think some LRRS $$ would be nice. and i think that when people like SBT offer to do a DFC for NV and LRRS says "if the EXs cant have the $$ then we arent doing it" i think thats BS. its bad enough that we dont get any help from the different manufactuers (tires and such) unless you are AM/EX.

if youre gonna complain about "sandbaggers/ cherrypickers then lets complain about people like greenwood and the other woods and the same people that win all the time in EX. when are they gonna move up?

Reward a made up class when the nationally recognized AM's don't get anything? Hell no. Reward Novice with a "championship"? Great idea, so people that are running novice class for four years as is can stick around longer and have something to try to brag about? Novices are entry level, they shouldn't get shit and that's why they don't. No manufacturer recognizes them, and no other racing association anywhere else in the country recognizes them. There is no reason in hell that ours should encourage people to lag. In your eyes I should go back to third grade instead of college and really show everyone who's smart.

[SVRACER01]

Originally posted by hessogood
Reward a made up class when the nationally recognized AM's don't get anything? Hell no. Reward Novice with a "championship"? Great idea, so people that are running novice class for four years as is can stick around longer and have something to try to brag about? Novices are entry level, they shouldn't get shit and that's why they don't. No manufacturer recognizes them, and no other racing association anywhere else in the country recognizes them. There is no reason in hell that ours should encourage people to lag. In your eyes I should go back to third grade instead of college and really show everyone who's smart.

no im just saying that racing is expensive and having a little "help" would be nice. im not saying pay out for every race but the GT races would be a start. i mean would it really hurt LRRS to give out $70 for 1st $50 for 2nd and $20 for 3rd to put toward races in the future? OR just get rid of NV all together

[TheIglu]

If there was no NV, then you wouldn't have this issue. Unfortunately we have to start there where everyone else starts in AM. Basically it took me half a season to get to where everyone else starts out as in the rest of the country. Does CCS give out certs and things for AM wins?



I still don't see how running NV or AM isn't "racing".

[hessogood]

Originally posted by TheIglu
If there was no NV, then you wouldn't have this issue. Unfortunately we have to start there where everyone else starts in AM. Basically it took me half a season to get to where everyone else starts out as in the rest of the country. Does CCS give out certs and things for AM wins?



I still don't see how running NV or AM isn't "racing".

it isn't racing when you're there running away with the wins without working for them. I could have sat in novice and cleaned up all season but is that racing?

[SVRACER01]

Originally posted by TheIglu
Does CCS give out certs and things for AM wins?

yes

[WebCrush]

This same topic comes up every year. Followed by motor oil questions, and request for new specialized classes.

Anyway, the reason I think an AM (or NV) championship is a silly proposition is that the only thing one requires to win one is to not bump up.

Sure, you have to ride hard and stuff, but as there is still another rung above (expert), there will be guys you start the season racing with (who may be beating you) may bump up to expert mid-season.

So what does that make of the AM championship? A happy feel good story where everyone gets to be cherry about themselves because they didn't have the self-confidence or motivation to take on a bigger challenge?

I don't know.

What I do know is that when I started racing, going from penguin school rookie to expert in a single season used to be the NORM, not the exception and every year more and more newbies complain that they don't get enough reward so concessions are offered.

Then every year you have more and more people not going expert, more and more cherry picking, and yet more and more demanding even more rewards for the lower ranks.

I'm still waiting for the day when an AM starts a fuss about deserving a two digit number plate (which ironically, is part of the reason everyone wanted to go expert in the first place--the rule was if you had a three digit number you HAD to have hard number plates, no exceptions)

[legalspeed]

A lot of decisions are based upon; "How can I win if I have to beat Jeff, Eric, Pete, Scott, Mike, Rick, Des, Kip, Etc...??"

If I bump up, I won't win unless a lot of people just don't show.

Maybe never a chance again to claim a championship, ever.

Here is a question: Is this why a lot of people that do bump to Ex, change classes?

Novus should get an award, followed by Am, and then Ex.

Without Nov, and Am, there are no experts.

[s a x m a n]

giving out championships in NV and AM is just ego stroking ... you have not even climbed the ladder yet and still looking to be called a champion.

If you hike everest its a hell of a climb to the base camp ... should we start saying those people climbed everest?

same thing IMO here ... NV and AM are steps that one needs to take to get to AM were championships can be won.

I'd be just as happy to win a class as an AM, i don't care if its called a championship or an achievement ... its all the same, and its is a very good accomplishment one which I would be proud to have done.

I tip my hat to eric for what he did this year ... yeah, i'm jealous, but also know that it was my first year and I am proud of the progress I made. Those guys set a high bar in the AM class this year ... which I couldn't reach ... its not their fault ... just makes me have to work harder.

From my experiance ... getting out of NV was the BEST thing for me. The "racing" in AM is just amazing and so much fun! The Fun factor does up exponentially. I recommend that any of your that are able to move from NV to AM, do so ASAP. The first couple race weekends there was great racing in the back of my classes, and it was awesome. As I started to keep pace, it just got even more fun.

[a13x]

psst... Most all forms of racing competition give out Championships to all levels.


psst... not everyone should / could be a Expert.



pssst. I don't know why I continue to care and stick up for other people since I can go Expert and run around just fine anyway.

[s a x m a n]

its something to talk about ... hahhah

i don't really care either ... but since its the "hot topic" why not talk about it

[Doc]

psst... Not to many people even hike to the base camp of Everest. They made it that far does that mean they HAVEN'T accomplished anything?

I agree people shouldn't sand bag. But then again How come the Experts don't move up? Gotta makes room everywhere.

What if you win the Novice/AM/Expert Championship 2 years in a row and don't move up then you are ineligible to win again...

Then they put you in the sandbaggers Class so the rest of em don't have to compete against the guys that are too good and won't give the rest of them a chance to win.

Novice
Novice Sandbaggers
Amateurs
AMateur Sandbaggers
Expert
Expert Sandbaggers