[Degsy]

Originally Posted by vintage ex race

What part of the ex experance did you think was dangerous, I personally think it is a great entry level class to see if racing is what some one wants to do . Look at the # of people who come and try racing and start in the 600 class and can't really handle the speeds and end up crashing , and possibly never really getting the feel of racing, Or in other words riding a bike they shouldn't really be on as a begginer

It's not that an EX500 is a dangerous bike, it's just that it's all to easy to buy a 1988 EX500 for $700 and be racing it the following weekend. Too many of them are pieces of crap. The one I rode that scared me had a rear shock that had no oil in it. The owner shall remain nameless (I don't want to embarrass him) :-)

....and if you can't handle the speeds of a 600cc bike, you should be spending a few more years riding the roads, doing trackdays etc before deciding that roadracing is for you. It seems that roadracing is now a natural progression after MSF basic riders course.

I'm sorry, if you're not able to handle the speeds of a 600 class bike, that is like saying you have no control over your throttle hand. If you cannot handle a middleweight motorcycle with around 100hp, you have no business on a racetrack. Think about it, it's a RACETRACK!!

Things you shouldn't hear at a racetrack, but sometimes do:

1. Yeah, I was in the lead when my ******** fell off and I couldn't shift/brake/accelerate/see properly etc etc.

2. It was only a small leak and I thought it would be ok. Well, halfway through lap 4 it got worse and coated my rear wheel/the track/other riders.

3. Case covers are required? Really? I've been racing for 5 years and I've never used case covers. Heh heh sorry Oxx, it just came to mind.

4. Yeah, I was eligible to move up 2 years ago, but what the hell, I'm winning, why change that by advancing?

5. Bought it last week for $800, changed out the coolant, safety wired it and I'm gonna race it to see how it runs. Next race weekend I'll do an oil change and buy some race take-offs if I can afford it.

[Paul_E_D]

It sucks that the real racing bikes have no class to run at Loudon (250/125). I respectfully disagree with Degs on nearly every point. Motorcycle racing is unique in that you can do it on a small budget, and get creative with your efforts. (safety and hygeine shouldn't be ignored though)

I think the attitude that 600s are good starter racers is responsible for the loss of good classes and generally lessens the level of actual racing that occurs at Loudon. many people run out of money and never get good enough to want to stay more than 2 years. Small bikes address both of those problems.

I think I've raced at a pretty high level even though I never raced a 600. I've watched too many seriously bad novice, amatuer, and even expert 600 races (minus the 3 guys at the front) to count. Truly terrible stuff. I also have watched entire seasons of ptwins that had some good racing in every level.

Not to mention, I spent years in expert fast guy practice. My biased opinion is that only a few people out there seem to be actually riding the 600 (as opposed to it riding them). I also think that a few of the top motard/sv/lightweight riders are riding better than the top 600 guys (pros excepted).

Lighter is ALWAYS better when it comes to handling on a racetrack. A better handling bike means riders can focus more on racing, and less on controling a heavier machine. It's actually the braking on the 600s that seems to fuck most guys up, NOT the the throttle.

[brady]

Originally Posted by BostonSVkid

For good slider look for nates motosliders

Motosliders

all plastic, bolt straight through the engine

[Degsy]

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

It sucks that the real racing bikes have no class to run at Loudon (250/125). I respectfully disagree with Degs on nearly every point. Motorcycle racing is unique in that you can do it on a small budget, and get creative with your efforts. (safety and hygeine shouldn't be ignored though)

Absolutely!! I'm not against racing on a budget, just against being out there on a bike you wouldn't ride on the street because it's so badly maintained.

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

I think the attitude that 600s are good starter racers is responsible for the loss of good classes and generally lessens the level of actual racing that occurs at Loudon. many people run out of money and never get good enough to want to stay more than 2 years. Small bikes address both of those problems.

Oh, I don't disagree with you. All I'm saying is TO ME, ex500s don't do it. I have plenty of friends who race EX500s and I'll come to the track and support them all the way. I'm just saying that when it comes to those bikes, it just seems to be a case of who can keep the throttle cable pinned the longest and luck out and not crash. I'm of the firm belief that road racing isn't selective enough in it's riders. I think you should AT LEAST be very very capable on a 600 (like tonys blue group capable) before you START racing. I don't think even the novice classes are a place to learn to ride a bike.

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

I think I've raced at a pretty high level even though I never raced a 600. I've watched too many seriously bad novice, amatuer, and even expert 600 races (minus the 3 guys at the front) to count. Truly terrible stuff. I also have watched entire seasons of ptwins that had some good racing in every level.

I'll agree with that, too. Again, I think there should be a competence level to achieve before a license is issued. I know there is now, but it seems that there are a few that slip through the cracks and get out there and truly truly suck and are a danger to others.

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

Not to mention, I spent years in expert fast guy practice. My biased opinion is that only a few people out there seem to be actually riding the 600 (as opposed to it riding them). I also think that a few of the top motard/sv/lightweight riders are riding better than the top 600 guys (pros excepted).

Erm, yep. I don't actually have an issue with motards at all. I haven't ridden them much, but the few times I have ridden them I start to wish I raced them instead of 600 class. Much more fun I think. I also think that if you are racing a REAL lightweight (400cc supersports bike, 125 or 250gp stroker, Duc 750, SV650) you should be MORE THAN capable of riding a 600 fast. I think it takes more skill to ride a lightweight bike than it does to ride a 600, no?

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

Lighter is ALWAYS better when it comes to handling on a racetrack. A better handling bike means riders can focus more on racing, and less on controling a heavier machine. It's actually the braking on the 600s that seems to fuck most guys up, NOT the the throttle.

Again, I agree. That's why I think it's exciting to watch the 600s. The vast majority of people who race the 600 class don't really try to improve their racecraft. They just try to twist more throttle and brake later and less controlled and use the point and shoot technique. That's why it's good to watch. I was always a late braking racer as opposed to an early off the apex guy.

Paul, I think on the whole we are agreeing on most points in fact. I'm not criticizing racing on a budget and definitely not criticizing the lightweight GP bikes and the fact that they should have a valid class of their own. I'm just not fond of the Loudon exclusive ex500 phenomenon from a race-watching point of view and an overall safety point of view, due to that class attracting some of the shitboxes that it does.

Derek

[Degsy]

http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...-the-list.html

[l3uddha]

Originally Posted by Degsy

http://www.nestreetriders.com/forum/...-the-list.html

i dont see the point in linking to that thread.

my bike's not a shitbox and i'm not skimping on it if that's what you're really worried about.

[Degsy]

Originally Posted by l3uddha

i dont see the point in linking to that thread.

my bike's not a shitbox and i'm not skimping on it if that's what you're really worried about.

Not saying anything about the bike, sorry if you had that impression. I was trying to prove my point about things like tires.

Let's go through this methodically, you are asking if your street tires are ok for the penguin school, rookie race and first novice race. I understand the need to save money, but do you think tires are the best place to save money? The fact that you asked indicates to me that subconciously, you KNOW that it's not a good move to race on street tires, but you're looking from validation from the racing community here on NESR. Ask on the NEAR list or WERA board whether you should be racing on street tires and you will get a very different answer.The track is full of people who ran their first race weekend and then realised that they should have used new race tires. If you cannot afford them for the first race weekend, wait for the second weekend before you race.

bentbryan, care to comment?

D

[RyanNicholson]

I have to agree with a lot of the things degsy has said.....I was the ultimate newb that decided to race the middleweight class WAY to early (6 months after getting my motorcycle license, without taking the MSF course). After my first weekend it opened my eyes BIG TIME to what I was actually doing and luckily met some awesome people that took me under their wing and watched over me, coached me, and drilled important things into my head constantly to make sure I wasn't a danger out there.

Looking back on it, I wish I had waited another year or two and done many track days before actually getting into racing (like denno's current path). I have no regrets about the classes I race, I wouldn't change that but I wish I was more prepared initially. Though I'd like to think that given the way I got into racing and the lack of experience, I was possibly an exception and progressed a little faster than normal.

I'm also more of a "brake late" guy than a "quick off the apex" guy like degsy meantioned he is. Though thats one of many things that I'm constantly working on....throttle control....which I know is a direct link to my lack of experience on a motorcycle. (getting better though )

In my opinion, you should have to prove you've done at least one track day and be able to meet a certain lap time before being issued a license....though I doubt that will happen since the more riders there are, the more money that is made (which is completely understandable)

[Degsy]

Ryan, well said. That's what i'm trying to get across.

[SVRACER01]

Originally Posted by Degsy

Things you shouldn't hear at a racetrack, but sometimes do:

1. Yeah, I was in the lead when my ******** fell off and I couldn't shift/brake/accelerate/see properly etc etc.

fuck you

Originally Posted by Degsy

3. Case covers are required? Really? I've been racing for 5 years and I've never used case covers. Heh heh sorry Oxx, it just came to mind.

they are required on certain bikes because that is the first thing to hit the ground (GSXR) but the SV is so narrow that the case doesnt hit. im sure ill buy some eventually. but you know all that already

[Degsy]

Originally Posted by SVRACER01

fuck you

Yeah, I think I probably deserve that.

[SVRACER01]

Originally Posted by Degsy

Yeah, I think I probably deserve that.

one brake caliper falls off and i never hear the end of it!

[bentbryan]

Originally Posted by Degsy

5. Bought it last week for $800, changed out the coolant, safety wired it and I'm gonna race it to see how it runs. Next race weekend I'll do an oil change and buy some race take-offs if I can afford it.

Ouch! Don't use take-offs for racing! New tires are cheaper than new parts for your bike. Take if from me, I know.