[RyanNicholson]

Originally Posted by Degsy

Sorry Ryan, that just doesn't cut it when negligence is involved. Take a look around for the several lawsuits that have been successfully brought against racers and race tracks for negligence. Just because it's a closed circuit it doesn't mean you can be negligent and get away with it.

Any number of small factors could have come into play that could have resulted in the "sorry bud" being said to Scott's fatherless sons. It's dangerous enough already without yahoos dreaming they are in motogp.

BTW, nice going this weekend Ryan.

Thanks

I do agree. I'm just talking in general "incident" terms, I didn't see this happen so I really can't comment on it. From my time on the track, I do think theres a fine line between a lack of experience and negligence. I know I've T-boned someone in T3 as a novice....I was on race pace, came on the brakes and simply couldn't slow down fast enough because the person in front of me was going extremely slow. I had to go to the right to avoid rear ending him, and by the time I did he had turned in. Neither of us went down thank god, and we spoke afterwords about it and laughed (we shared responsibility, but I was truly at fault) but that was lack of experience.... in what sounds like a similar situation.

Conversations like this could go on forever....bottom line, heal up quick man....hope to see you back out there

[Pittenger5]

Originally Posted by Honclfibr

You'd be surprised, with the adrenaline going and everything happening so fast it is possible to make stupid moves out there without even recognizing that they're stupid, especially as a novice.

I pulled that last week at practice. I was behind a ZX10 (street bike) on my little EX. He was a new guy, good lines, but hey, hes on a ZX10. Id catch him every corner, he'd take off on every straight. I could never get close enough to make a clean pass. Finally i thought I had a shot in 3, went to the inside, didnt have as much room as I thought, he turned in, I was basically still straight, I cut the rumble strip but it was VERY close. The only thing I could think was I gotta get around this guy to get some clean practice laps in. Of course, I could've ridden through the hot pit to get away, but all I could think of was getting by him. It was a real dumb move on m y part, especially first session during practice. Afterward I went to apologize to him for trying the move, he seemed cool about it, no blood no foul there. But it is quite easy when you're at race pace to let some rational thought go out the window.

[Paul_E_D]

Has a racer ever been proven negligent? I'd be suprised. Is it negligent to try to win? Because that's the whole point of racing. Finish in front of as many guys as possible.

The guy in this case clearly did it wrong, because he didn't finish, he injured someone, and damaged 2 bikes. That's a mighty big screw up, but I think it's be impossible to prove negligence.

What's negligent is getting on the track in the first place! You're neglecting your own safety.

[BMFR6]

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

I pulled that last week at practice. I was behind a ZX10 (street bike) on my little EX. He was a new guy, good lines, but hey, hes on a ZX10. Id catch him every corner, he'd take off on every straight. I could never get close enough to make a clean pass. Finally i thought I had a shot in 3, went to the inside, didnt have as much room as I thought, he turned in, I was basically still straight, I cut the rumble strip but it was VERY close. The only thing I could think was I gotta get around this guy to get some clean practice laps in. Of course, I could've ridden through the hot pit to get away, but all I could think of was getting by him. It was a real dumb move on m y part, especially first session during practice. Afterward I went to apologize to him for trying the move, he seemed cool about it, no blood no foul there. But it is quite easy when you're at race pace to let some rational thought go out the window.

you were on the track for practice with a ZX10??? this wasnt during a race weekend was it?

[Pittenger5]

Originally Posted by BMFR6

you were on the track for practice with a ZX10??? this wasnt during a race weekend was it?

Open practice on a thursday.
2 groups, novices and AM/EX. Thats the only division.

[Degsy]

Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

Has a racer ever been proven negligent? I'd be suprised. Is it negligent to try to win? Because that's the whole point of racing. Finish in front of as many guys as possible.

The guy in this case clearly did it wrong, because he didn't finish, he injured someone, and damaged 2 bikes. That's a mighty big screw up, but I think it's be impossible to prove negligence.

What's negligent is getting on the track in the first place! You're neglecting your own safety.

I have seen a trackday participant found responsible for a trackday accident and I have seen a racer named in a lawsuit, along with a track in which the track was found responsible (arizona I think). The point I'm trying to make is that just because you are ona racetrack, you still have to abide by the general rules of life. Fail to do that and you leave yourself open to prosecution.

[l3uddha]

nature of the beast... i don't know what else to say about the situation.

i mean, am I wrong to expect a thread about someone and/or their bike getting badly messed up after every LRRS weekend? I don't like to, but I do...

heal up dude. very unfortunate thing to have happened.

[BMFR6]

Originally Posted by Pittenger5

Open practice on a thursday.
2 groups, novices and AM/EX. Thats the only division.

ah, thought you were talking about Sat/Sun

[a13x]

Here in CA they sue people (and win) for racetrack incidents. It's fucking stupid. I like the rough and tumble way the Northeast guys do it. You fuck with someone here and you settle it like men in the paddock.

Obviously I don't want to see anyone get killed. Nor do I condone reckless racing (I pride myself on aways trying to make clean passes, sometimes to my disadvantage). I don't want to see Lawsuits thrown around however, because NOTHING good comes out of that for the sport.

[wookie]

Originally Posted by BMFR6

ah, thought you were talking about Sat/Sun

Actually, I think it could happen in race 1 on Sunday. Combined GTO/GTU/GTL.

[BMFR6]

yeah but he had mentioned practice, thats why i had asked

[Evil_Weasel]

Originally Posted by BMFR6

a blurred line even.

i couldn't agree more.

the first time i met stuipidhawk was at the apex of turn 1a where he tried to insert a hawk into my nsr and create an HRC super mutant as he lapped me.

later that night i ran into him by the fire and he apologized profusely...despite his fellow turn 1aers recomending i throw him into a tent (bunch of instigators). i now consider us buddies and never fail to stop by to say hello when i'm at the track.

the key differance...no injurys or bent bikes.

sometimes it really is "no harm no foul"

unfortunatly this "momentary lapse of reason" by what is probably a decent guy didn't have a happy ending.

[s a x m a n]

isn't racing just a prolonged lapse of reason??

[Hardcore]

motards need their own raceS!!!
give em more than 1 + disallow them from all other classes!!!

I've said this for years + until it is done, there will be many more stupid crashes!

[burnham]

Originally Posted by Degsy

Thanks a bunch for slamming into my buddy in turn 3 during the novice formula 40 on Sunday. His bike is extensively broken and his knee is the size of a softball. He is awaiting an MRI to check for ligament damage. It's a frigging miracle no-one was killed in your attempt to wow the racing world with your NOVICE FORMULA 40 win.

You were running 8 seconds a lap faster than him, yet you decided a 'hail Mary' pass on the inside of turn 3 was the appropriate move. You almost took out about 6 bikes!!. I told your buddies what a fool you were and that you should be ashamed of yourself. I hope they passed on the message, because they seemed to agree with me. It was the single worst pass attempt I have ever seen. A suicide attempt would have looked less deliberate.

Yeah, I'm talking to you Eric Shaw, Novice #350!

If you had any class you would contact Scott Merrill and send him a nice fat check to cover the damage YOU did to his brand new gixxer race bike.

Broken rear wheel
Broken frame sliders, both sides
Extensive bodywork damage both sides
Broken woodcraft clip-on
Broken woodcraft rearsets, both sides
Broken engine cases, both sides.

Hey Degsy, I am one of Eric Shaws friends from turn 3. Yes, we did feel it was a "bone head move". I know Eric felt bad about what he did, he is aware of how people who ride like that are looked upon.
As far as your messages to him go, if there's anything you feel he should know you should say it to him at the track as he doesn't post here. I think this kind of thing is probably best off being worked out at the track anyway, not in front of a computer.
I saw you and Denno watching the race and I was going to come over and introduce myself after it was over, but things went to shit. Anyway I look forward to meeting you and good luck with your season. Todd

[Crash Dummy Denno]

Originally Posted by s a x m a n

isn't racing just a prolonged lapse of reason??

hehe true

Originally Posted by hardcore

motards need their own raceS!!!
give em more than 1 + disallow them from all other classes!!!

I've said this for years + until it is done, there will be many more stupid crashes!

hehe chad hates motards

[Kitt]

There's a group of guys who come up form NYC who are used to driving around in nyc traffic... cutting race lines is the norm! I've seen them t-bone in 3 during a practice, superman through the grass in 1, and high-side themselves in 4 making a pass during "warmup lap".

I also almost got T-boned in 3 sunday by an expert who I had passed... it was the last lap and we were both back from the pack, I passed clean inside driving from 2, then got stuffed and nearly t-boned in 3.

It sucks, you get mad about it, but it is all racing... we all know the risks, but it's ok to expect a level of courtesy and responsibility... as far as I can tell every racer at LRRS isn't winning enough to exempt them from work on monday morning...

[35racer]

Personally, I'm not sure bumping this rider up is the right move.

The whole theory behind having a certain number of races first is to learn how to race/pass/etc. A rider with just a few laps at Loudon knows that you can pass maybe 2 to 3 bikes maximum in the chute. Beyond that, you will most likely screw up or hit the bikes closest to the turn. If he really tried to pass 4 or 5 bikes in the chute, it was a stupid move and hopefully he now realizes it.

Racing incidents happen, and it definitely sucks.

However, if lawsuits start making their way (further) into the RACING environment, it's a slippery slope with no brakepads.

I'd rather see the people that make the boneheaded moves step up to the plate and OFFER to help out with repair costs (when it is an obvious case, such as this).

Like any part of life, we wouldn't need lawyers or lawsuits if people would just do the right thing!

[Kitt]

i dont think the guy who made the mistake needs to help pay for anything... we all take the risk, I mean if he did it intentionally and was a repeat offender, i'd say make him pay or get off the track. From the guys who know him, he seems reasonable and like he is learning from it.

[loridin64]

Originally Posted by eboos

Was that why there was a red flag? I was just coming around turn 11 when a corner worker waved me into the pit lane.

Hope you recover well and soon Scott.

Yes, this is why. I saw this from the top corner of the Concord bleachers. Both guys were down for what seemed like an eternity. Obviously, cant give any more details being I was so far away.

As with everyone else, best wishes for speedy recovery and getting bikes back together.

[35racer]

Originally Posted by Kitt

i dont think the guy who made the mistake needs to help pay for anything... we all take the risk, I mean if he did it intentionally and was a repeat offender, i'd say make him pay or get off the track. From the guys who know him, he seems reasonable and like he is learning from it.

I'm against making anyone pay for anything...

I'm saying let your own conscience be the judge. I wasn't there and am not talking specifically about this incident.

Only the guy who made the mistake should make the call... this time and in any racing incident.

I definitely agree that most times, a simple sorry and handshake should end it.

[Degsy]

Originally Posted by burnham

Hey Degsy, I am one of Eric Shaws friends from turn 3. Yes, we did feel it was a "bone head move". I know Eric felt bad about what he did, he is aware of how people who ride like that are looked upon.
As far as your messages to him go, if there's anything you feel he should know you should say it to him at the track as he doesn't post here. I think this kind of thing is probably best off being worked out at the track anyway, not in front of a computer.
I saw you and Denno watching the race and I was going to come over and introduce myself after it was over, but things went to shit. Anyway I look forward to meeting you and good luck with your season. Todd

Erm, sorry we didn't meet on better terms.

Yep, point taken. As you could tell, I was more than a bit pissed off. That bike had been in my garage being worked on for months. It was mint, now it's a wreck. I was worked up about it for a couple of days, but i'm seeing less red and more reason now.

Sorry about venting my anger at/to you.

[rmbbikes]

Originally Posted by hardcore

motards need their own raceS!!!
give em more than 1 + disallow them from all other classes!!!

I've said this for years + until it is done, there will be many more stupid crashes!

You die now!

KB

[rmbbikes]

Stupid things happen in novice!!!

KB