My Track Experience.. experience

[Woodcraft]

I'm far from a body position maven, but am relatively good at making people feel good about themselves.

Me from a "similar" spot on the track.

Attachment 35524

If I were critiquing myself, 3 (primary) things (and opinions from others more than welcome).
1. Get my effing head down.
2. Get my ass back in the saddle.
3. Push up with my offside foot driving my knee into the tank.

From my uninformed perspective, in that order.

I don't know nearly enough to critique you.

Have fun. Learn. I'm pretty sure in that order

I like the attitude.....you've got that perfect! For what it's worth on you - and these three really need to happen together.

1. Relax your arms (both of them) as completely as you can. Your grip at this point should be "guidance" only, and not any type of support. If you cannot do this, then you need to engage your legs more (follow steps 2 and 3 together)
2. Get off the seat.....if the majority of your weight is in the seat (as opposed to the pegs), then that's the first thing to correct
3. Separate from the tank - you are right on with that one.


Your photo is something that we see every weekend. I'll tell you what I tell all of them: follow those 3 steps and there will never be anything that makes more difference in your riding.

[nhbubba]

I've heard folks tell each other to use the "screwdriver grip" on the bars lately.
I've been trying this out on the street and I think I like it. Somewhat encourages the inside arm to relax and get down.

[Woodcraft]

I call it the "doorknob grip", but it's all the same. It was in one of the recent newsletters that we put out and got a lot of good feedback from riders who tried it.

[jasnmar]

OP - apologies for disrailing your thread.

Thanks for the feedback Eric.

Arms... yes. Absolutely a problem for me. It's such a known problem for me that I glance over it as obvious, but it is critical. I am far to grippy.

I did find, at the end of the day in the picture above, that if I got my head down far enough to get my chest in contact with the tank, for some reason that was a key reference for me and my arms would just "melt" into place.

The screwdriver that 'Bubs mentions, or diagonal / doorknob grip, as you described it in the newsletter also helps, but making that work, at least for me requires me to also get my head down (it's "almost" impossible on the GL to get comfortable doing this, especially on the off side) so that there is enough "slack" in my arms to get there.

Even street riding, I'm constantly reminding myself "jazzhands". I really like to be grippy.

I'm open to any other tricks in being less grippy.

[CBR929RE]

Arms... yes. Absolutely a problem for me. It's such a known problem for me that I glance over it as obvious, but it is critical. I am far to grippy.

you wanna see evidence of gripping too tight come look at the grips on my bike. I always forget to tell myself to relax my arms. lap times suffer big time because of it and it saps energy making a long race or session tiring when it shouldn't be because its really not that long out there.

[number9]

Where to begin? I'll start at the start, I guess.

I went up to NHMS over the weekend and did their Basic License Certification Course and it ended.. ignominiously. :o During the 5th lap of the first Follow the Leader session, I low-sided the bike (left side down) coming out of turn 6:



This was frustrating for three reasons. One, it was the first session of the day, and I felt like an idiot. Two, that's the place on the track where I feel the most comfortable -- it's an uphill left-hander with a lot of banking. Three, I don't know why it happened. Things were going fine (relatively speaking) until it felt like a force pushed the bike over onto its left-hand side. I don't recall the feeling of the bike washing out, nor of a big bar input, but rather it just went down and I went with it. Perhaps my tire pressures were a little high -- 31psi front, 33psi rear (factory is 36/42) -- but still I must have made some mistake.

Thankfully, I was unhurt and the bike sustained only a little damage. The gear-shift lever's barrel snapped off, as did the handlebar bar end. I ended up dropping maybe an ounce of anti-freeze on the track, which got me in a bit of trouble. When I did the day in June, I specifically asked if I could run anti-freeze, and the answer was "yes". This time, not so much. I understand why they have the restriction, but it was frustrating to have been misinformed.

In retrospect, I think the "follow the leader" pace in the course was too quick for me. I didn't feel uncomfortable at the time, but given the outcome (and my lack of understanding why it happened) I don't think there's another conclusion. I talked with the instructor afterward, and said that I wasn't sure if I could (mechanically) or would (mentally) continue with the day. He said to put the bike back together and see how I felt.

Repairing the bike took several hours. Street & Competition were a huge help, suggestion that I grind flat the broken part of the gear lever & then providing me with an aftermarket replacement barrel. Many friendly folks in the garage lent me tools (file, die grinder, drill, Loctite) and got me going. Then I had to drain and dump the anti-freeze, and refill with water & water-wetter. In the process I flattened the battery, meaning I had to jump-start it with the Subaru :roll eyes: costing me even more time.

After I got everything back together it was about 1:30pm. The Penguin staff were very helpful and understanding, and I asked if I could switch up to the Track Experience sessions and they agreed it was a good idea. So, I did that the Experience for the rest of the day. It went well -- no crashes!

Now that I was back on the bike, I really tried hard to focus on my body positioning. I was concentrating on getting one buttcheek off the seat, but at the same time keeping my arms loose and my knee out as far as I can. Not to drag it necessarily, but just to help keep my shoulders and pelvis straight so that I wouldn't twist my upper body and thus get my feet all out of position. Which had been a problem before...

The day got better as I got more comfortable. I only really used 3rd and 4th gear, with the occasional sojourn into 2nd gear when I would mess up the approach into turns 3 & 4. The best session of the day for me was the last session of the day, when I was able to put everything together -- both my body positioning and the correct (or, close to correct) racing lines. I certainly wasn't setting the world on fire in terms of speed, but I felt smooth (for me) and fluid (ditto).

I spoke with the instructors (Scott and Steve) at the end of the day, mostly about the VFR's suitability for my learning to ride on the track. They said it wasn't impossible, but it probably wasn't the best course of action -- which wasn't a surprise. I would need better tires, re-worked suspension front & rear and bodywork at a minimum. Which would probably cost me $1500 or so, which seems pointless money to throw at a $2700 sport-tourer. So, now I have to decide what to do next :o

Huge thanks to my buddy Ivan for hooking me up with his trailer. Never riding the bike to & from the track again!

[nhbubba]

Hats off to you for running a VFR out there in Basic!!! I just picked up a gen 3 this summer and have been mortified with how stiff it handles. Seems like a bike designed for devouring highway miles and occasionally shredding wide sweepers. Not necessarily the tight technical stuff at Loudon. I can't imagine running mine there.

Glad your day wasn't a total loss. I saw you out there in the TE sessions and you seemed a little tepid. Face planting in T6 would explain that. I've been there, done that. Check the left side of my body kit for the receipt.

Good luck man.

[number9]

Hats off to you for running a VFR out there in Basic!!! I just picked up a gen 3 this summer and have been mortified with how stiff it handles. Seems like a bike designed for devouring highway miles and occasionally shredding wide sweepers. Not necessarily the tight technical stuff at Loudon. I can't imagine running mine there.

Glad your day wasn't a total loss. I saw you out there in the TE sessions and you seemed a little tepid. Face planting in T6 would explain that. I've been there, done that. Check the left side of my body kit for the receipt.

Good luck man.

Thanks brother! What were you on? And yeah, I was tepid, only started to loosen up at about 4pm

[jasnmar]

No doubt. I saw the viffer lined up for the follow the leader lap and was quite impressed.

Sorry about the tip over in 6. I know little about this, but have heard that a tip over in 6 at or after the apex is usually an extra bar input. I didn't see the actual tip over, but the location of your bike afterwards would be consistent with this.

At least now I can vaguely put a face to the username. I was the fat guy with a 10mm socket.

[number9]

No doubt. I saw the viffer lined up for the follow the leader lap and was quite impressed.

Sorry about the tip over in 6. I know little about this, but have heard that a tip over in 6 at or after the apex is usually an extra bar input. I didn't see the actual tip over, but the location of your bike afterwards would be consistent with this.

At least now I can vaguely put a face to the username. I was the fat guy with a 10mm socket.

Ahh yes. Thanks for that, it was a lifesaver!! I forgot my socket set (d'oh) though I remembered to bring my wrench set. Except, of course, for the 10mm wrench. Which is the size of about half of the fasteners

Part of the reason I was so surprised at the low side was I was past the apex and in the process of accelerating and standing the bike up. The only other thing that I thought it could have been was dragging the center stand. But, I don't think I can lean the bike over far enough to do it. Scotty Greenwood had a look with me and we didn't see any drag marks, so I'm sure it was rider error behind the bars.

We should get NESR hats, or name tags or something. Seriously though, the friendliness of people is amazing. I got a bunch of tools from an older guy with a Ducati, and the coolant trays from another guy that seemed to be re-sealing the gearbox of something-or-other. Yet another friendly guy supplied the drill & drill bits.

My VFR has a hair over 32,000 miles and the forks & shock have probably never been looked at. Which is mostly my fault...

[tsorfas]

6 usually bites once. Now you know what not to do there again. It makes a lot more sense as you go faster in that turn. It's weird.

[nhbubba]

Thanks brother! What were you on? And yeah, I was tepid, only started to loosen up at about 4pm

Fugly orange SV650, obnoxious hi-viz helmet. Somewhat hard to miss. I was garaged with jasnmar. I missed the first two afternoon sessions as I was a dumbass and locked my keys in my car.

I blame my T6 face plant on cold tires. Well, shitty riding and cold tires. I think if the tires weren't cold I would have made it through. But ultimately it was shitty riding. I have video of mine. You can clearly see the bike wobble just before it goes down. Smacks of bar input.. I think.

[straightsix]

Where to begin? I'll start at the start, I guess.

I went up to NHMS over the weekend and did their Basic License Certification Course and it ended.. ignominiously. :o During the 5th lap of the first Follow the Leader session, I low-sided the bike (left side down) coming out of turn 6:



This was frustrating for three reasons. One, it was the first session of the day, and I felt like an idiot. Two, that's the place on the track where I feel the most comfortable -- it's an uphill left-hander with a lot of banking. Three, I don't know why it happened. Things were going fine (relatively speaking) until it felt like a force pushed the bike over onto its left-hand side. I don't recall the feeling of the bike washing out, nor of a big bar input, but rather it just went down and I went with it. Perhaps my tire pressures were a little high -- 31psi front, 33psi rear (factory is 36/42) -- but still I must have made some mistake.

Thankfully, I was unhurt and the bike sustained only a little damage. The gear-shift lever's barrel snapped off, as did the handlebar bar end. I ended up dropping maybe an ounce of anti-freeze on the track, which got me in a bit of trouble. When I did the day in June, I specifically asked if I could run anti-freeze, and the answer was "yes". This time, not so much. I understand why they have the restriction, but it was frustrating to have been misinformed.

In retrospect, I think the "follow the leader" pace in the course was too quick for me. I didn't feel uncomfortable at the time, but given the outcome (and my lack of understanding why it happened) I don't think there's another conclusion. I talked with the instructor afterward, and said that I wasn't sure if I could (mechanically) or would (mentally) continue with the day. He said to put the bike back together and see how I felt.

Repairing the bike took several hours. Street & Competition were a huge help, suggestion that I grind flat the broken part of the gear lever & then providing me with an aftermarket replacement barrel. Many friendly folks in the garage lent me tools (file, die grinder, drill, Loctite) and got me going. Then I had to drain and dump the anti-freeze, and refill with water & water-wetter. In the process I flattened the battery, meaning I had to jump-start it with the Subaru :roll eyes: costing me even more time.

After I got everything back together it was about 1:30pm. The Penguin staff were very helpful and understanding, and I asked if I could switch up to the Track Experience sessions and they agreed it was a good idea. So, I did that the Experience for the rest of the day. It went well -- no crashes!

Now that I was back on the bike, I really tried hard to focus on my body positioning. I was concentrating on getting one buttcheek off the seat, but at the same time keeping my arms loose and my knee out as far as I can. Not to drag it necessarily, but just to help keep my shoulders and pelvis straight so that I wouldn't twist my upper body and thus get my feet all out of position. Which had been a problem before...

The day got better as I got more comfortable. I only really used 3rd and 4th gear, with the occasional sojourn into 2nd gear when I would mess up the approach into turns 3 & 4. The best session of the day for me was the last session of the day, when I was able to put everything together -- both my body positioning and the correct (or, close to correct) racing lines. I certainly wasn't setting the world on fire in terms of speed, but I felt smooth (for me) and fluid (ditto).

I spoke with the instructors (Scott and Steve) at the end of the day, mostly about the VFR's suitability for my learning to ride on the track. They said it wasn't impossible, but it probably wasn't the best course of action -- which wasn't a surprise. I would need better tires, re-worked suspension front & rear and bodywork at a minimum. Which would probably cost me $1500 or so, which seems pointless money to throw at a $2700 sport-tourer. So, now I have to decide what to do next :o

Huge thanks to my buddy Ivan for hooking me up with his trailer. Never riding the bike to & from the track again!

You, along with 3 other ppl I know, dumped in the bowl their first track day. I would be part of the club, but instead I dumped turn 2 my first track day when I added some gas + steering input at the same time... It was entirely my fault, I didn't finish 1a which screwed up my line for 2 and 3 haha, you live and you learn!

[Woodcraft]

Hey all - I'm sorry that you fell in 6, but I was glad to hear that you got it all back together and rode the rest of the day. The #1 reason people fall in Turn 6 is because they have bar input after the apex while finishing the turn. It's critical to get the bike pointed up track before the apex so you can allow the bike to stand up as the gas is applied. We use the phrase "Gas on, bike up" all the time at the school and if followed perfectly it will save about 75% of the crashes that we see out there. What compounds the issue in 6 is that the front end tends to unload (rebound up) a touch after the apex, which takes even more weight off of it.

The same thing happens often in Turn 2 as well. Long corners that lead to a drives are the most common culprit because you have to do so much of the turn while on the throttle. Remember, the front wheel has only so much traction and if you unweight the front tire with throttle (which you have to do in those corners) you have to reduce the corresponding turning load at the same time. This brings us back to where we started - when you release the brakes, get your turn done quickly. When the direction is changed, release the bar input and crack the gas on. As long as you release the bars and roll the first 25% of your throttle smoothly - your bike will stand up and arc towards the outside and you'll be good 99 out of 100 times.

Hope to see you out there in October!

[straightsix]

Hey all - I'm sorry that you fell in 6, but I was glad to hear that you got it all back together and rode the rest of the day. The #1 reason people fall in Turn 6 is because they have bar input after the apex while finishing the turn. It's critical to get the bike pointed up track before the apex so you can allow the bike to stand up as the gas is applied. We use the phrase "Gas on, bike up" all the time at the school and if followed perfectly it will save about 75% of the crashes that we see out there. What compounds the issue in 6 is that the front end tends to unload (rebound up) a touch after the apex, which takes even more weight off of it.

The same thing happens often in Turn 2 as well. Long corners that lead to a drives are the most common culprit because you have to do so much of the turn while on the throttle. Remember, the front wheel has only so much traction and if you unweight the front tire with throttle (which you have to do in those corners) you have to reduce the corresponding turning load at the same time. This brings us back to where we started - when you release the brakes, get your turn done quickly. When the direction is changed, release the bar input and crack the gas on. As long as you release the bars and roll the first 25% of your throttle smoothly - your bike will stand up and arc towards the outside and you'll be good 99 out of 100 times.

Hope to see you out there in October!

Thanks Eric! You really know your stuff!