Invest in Titanium

[tonup]

Holy Shit! Got the bill for my clavicle plate. Just the plate and screws alone they billed out at $4400. Good thing the wife has insurance through her work. I'd be sunk. As the bills roll in I am amazed at the prices of these medical procedures. Accidents ain't cheap! Hell, even the shop was charging $65 a day for storage of the bike. He raped allstate and luckily not me.

[Trouble]

Another eye opener is how much the insurance company actually pays out to the hospital versus how much the hospital tries to bill.

[markbvt]

Yeah, the titanium plate in my wrist cost like $5000. God only knows how much the titanium rod holding my femur together cost -- I haven't seen that bill yet.

Thank god I have good insurance.

--mark

[CBR929RE]

oh man that's a lot of cake and I fear I might need a plate and screws for my clavicle also.

[gadget]

Titanium is listed at $18-$22 a lb.

The money you are paying for is the labor and technology to work the metal into a prostethis and the grossly inflated costs of the healthcare system that has been left unregulated for so long it is now completely out of control.

It is also entirely possible that your parts are not even solid titanium but titanium plated since titanium anodizing other metals has started to come into practice. It is cheaper to work those metals and then coat them in Titanium and of course they don't pass the savings on to the patient, just the cheaper, inferior parts.

[CBR929RE]

Titanium is listed at $18-$22 a lb.

The money you are paying for is the labor and technology to work the metal into a prostethis and the grossly inflated costs of the healthcare system that has been left unregulated for so long it is now completely out of control.

It is also entirely possible that your parts are not even solid titanium but titanium plated since titanium anodizing other metals has started to come into practice. It is cheaper to work those metals and then coat them in Titanium and of course they don't pass the savings on to the patient, just the cheaper, inferior parts.

I doubt they'd use coated parts in the body. we're talking about medical grade here. http://www.supraalloys.com/medical-titanium.php

[gadget]

I doubt they'd use coated parts in the body. we're talking about medical grade here. http://www.supraalloys.com/medical-titanium.php

um yeah, are we're talking about the same healthcare system...?

[NeverlosT]

yeah my metal elbow and shoulder were serious business. There really is no reason for that excessive price. I took my hardware out and have it in a jar, the screws are pretty damn standard stainless and titanium, one of the plates was stainless the other was Titanium, pretty raw metal from the look of it. The cost is in making the whole kit steril and supplying the whole kit.

My doc was telling me that they have this whole set of tools, plates, screws, spare parts, and you buy that WHOLE KIT not just what they put into you (since it is all open in your surgical theater and therefore not sterile enough to use in someone else after your procedure). So that is some of the cost. The rest of it is the hospital givin' it to you good.

[gadget]

yeah my metal elbow and shoulder were serious business. There really is no reason for that excessive price. I took my hardware out and have it in a jar, the screws are pretty damn standard stainless and titanium, one of the plates was stainless the other was Titanium, pretty raw metal from the look of it. The cost is in making the whole kit steril and supplying the whole kit.

My doc was telling me that they have this whole set of tools, plates, screws, spare parts, and you buy that WHOLE KIT not just what they put into you (since it is all open in your surgical theater and therefore not sterile enough to use in someone else after your procedure). So that is some of the cost. The rest of it is the hospital givin' it to you good.

So you got the plates and the screws...who got the rest of the kit?

btw, here is a company that offers "titanium coating" solutions for the Medical Device Industry....
http://www.medcoat2000.com/

[butcher bergs]

8 years ago it was $16,000 to break a tibia and fibula.

Just sayin'....

[tonup]

You guys with the metal in you....How does it feel during the winter. I spend a lot of time working in the elements and am curious as to the discomfort/non issue of this thing. I hear some people get the plates and pins out and some don't.
If you did get it taken out, did insurance cover that or was it considered elective surgery?

edit: I broke 10k without even breathing and that was before all is totally done. More x rays tomorrow.

[CBR929RE]

edit: I broke 10k without even breathing and that was before all is totally done. More x rays tomorrow.

bringing you back from the dead costs a lot of money

[ilikenapalm]

Yeah, the titanium plate in my wrist cost like $5000. God only knows how much the titanium rod holding my femur together cost -- I haven't seen that bill yet.

Thank god I have good insurance.

--mark

Should be right around the $33,000 mark for the femur after all is said and done. That's before the hospital stay...


which, by the way, what 4 star resort was I staying at when they billed $3,300 a night for a hospital bed??

[butcher bergs]

You guys with the metal in you....How does it feel during the winter...

I still have a Ti rod and screw in my leg but I can't say whether or not the discomfort is because of nerve damage or the hardware. I have both and have learned to live with it but it is year-round for me and not just seasonal discomfort.

[scottfromboston]

btw, here is a company that offers "titanium coating" solutions for the Medical Device Industry....
http://www.medcoat2000.com/

They coat ti with other materials, not the inverse, but there are companies who do that, and for good reason.

[scottfromboston]

It is also entirely possible that your parts are not even solid titanium but titanium plated since titanium anodizing other metals has started to come into practice. It is cheaper to work those metals and then coat them in Titanium and of course they don't pass the savings on to the patient, just the cheaper, inferior parts.

I'm not heavy in ortho (or metallurgy, for that matter), but here's my perspective:

You don't necessarily want solid Ti-alloy implants; it's not strong/rigid enough for supporting structure usage on major components (hips, knees, spinal fixation).

Ti's biggest strength is that it's biologically compatible and can be worked to encourage bone ingrowth (as in the case of hip + knee stuff) so coating a structural member (like the leg member of a hip implant) that's say, chrome steel (strong, high wear resistance) with a "spongy" Ti coating helps ensure the body plays along and secures the new implant.

[scottfromboston]

Full kits are provided because the product is designed and tested as a system and needs to be used that way. If a manufacturer sold individual components, there would be much less control over the application. If nothing else, it certainly helps shift blame from the manufacturer.

The rest of the kit would have gone to the medical waste people. There's no conspiracy here.

[scottfromboston]

The rest of it is the hospital givin' it to you good.

Because they can.

[Cougar296]

I had an MRI arthrogram on my left hip a couple months ago, and apparently the bill came out to around $3,000. That's just to get images. Our healthcare system is...interesting, to say the least. I can't imagine what I'd do without health insurance.

[StrayNut]

8 years ago it was $16,000 to break a tibia and fibula.

Hey, I broke my tibia & fibula 8 years ago too! Only time I've somersaulted over a car

Sorry to hear about your clavicle, tonup. Here's to fast healing. I got a titanium rod and 3 screws - I don't remember feeling any difference in cold weather, but all the nerves around the knee and ankle were Fd up anyway so who knows what was causing what.

[gadget]

I'm not heavy in ortho (or metallurgy, for that matter), but here's my perspective:

You don't necessarily want solid Ti-alloy implants; it's not strong/rigid enough for supporting structure usage on major components (hips, knees, spinal fixation).

Ti's biggest strength is that it's biologically compatible and can be worked to encourage bone ingrowth (as in the case of hip + knee stuff) so coating a structural member (like the leg member of a hip implant) that's say, chrome steel (strong, high wear resistance) with a "spongy" Ti coating helps ensure the body plays along and secures the new implant.

Obviously, it is much more complicated than I originally thought.
Would you say that these implants (i.e. rods and screws) are normally made out of complicated alloys and plating?

[Fitz]

I find it amusing when people b*tch about healthcare costs for implantable devices without knowing the hoops medical companies have to jump through in order to get approved in the US. If you developed an intermedullary nail for femur implant today, how long would it take you to actually get to market AND what's the associated cost for the test and clinical trials to get approval? <- The factor slowing the time to market has virtually nothing to do with the "healthcare industry" by the way.

The doctor gave me my intermedullary nail when they explanted it from my femur along with the proximal and distal fixation. Pretty neat items. Replaced it with a condylar plate and a dozen more screws. Hope to hell that arrangement finishes healing up quick.

Fitz

[scottfromboston]

Obviously, it is much more complicated than I originally thought.
Would you say that these implants (i.e. rods and screws) are normally made out of complicated alloys and plating?

I wouldn't say complicated (compared to something like aerospace composites), but I would say "well engineered". Much time is put into the robustness of the design and the quality of the manufacture.

[scottfromboston]

I find it amusing when people b*tch about healthcare costs for implantable devices without knowing the hoops medical companies have to jump through in order to get approved in the US. If you developed an intermedullary nail for femur implant today, how long would it take you to actually get to market AND what's the associated cost for the test and clinical trials to get approval? <- The factor slowing the time to market has virtually nothing to do with the "healthcare industry" by the way.

You "ain't shitting."

[ThisBitch]

I find it amusing when people b*tch about healthcare costs for implantable devices without knowing the hoops medical companies have to jump through in order to get approved in the US. If you developed an intermedullary nail for femur implant today, how long would it take you to actually get to market AND what's the associated cost for the test and clinical trials to get approval? <- The factor slowing the time to market has virtually nothing to do with the "healthcare industry" by the way.

The doctor gave me my intermedullary nail when they explanted it from my femur along with the proximal and distal fixation. Pretty neat items. Replaced it with a condylar plate and a dozen more screws. Hope to hell that arrangement finishes healing up quick.

Fitz

This.

About 30% of my clients work in bioscience and various medical device industries. You want to bring down the cost of these things? Get rid of the FDA.