2013 GNCC: Kailub Russell POV

[typeone]

Round 2 - Washington, GA

Cliffs: Russell eats it in the first corner then battles back through the 3hr race to take the win. WORK!

[tls25rs]

cool vid!

Couple things stood out to me other than the obvious, holy hell this kid is fast through the woods.

Here is this rider going through the woods at speeds most of us wouldn't even think about going and he just nonchalantly reaches up and wipes off the camera lens..............If I was even trying to go anywhere near that fast the last thing I'd be thinking about is the lens on the camera!

The rev limiter bounce around the 6 minute mark when he was trying to pass another rider. I guess I can understand letting the guy know you are there with the rev limiter bounce if he is a back marker or someone you are lapping (don't know if this was the case or not) but if you are racing for the position I don't get it. Obviously the guy is going fast enough that you can't get by him so why should a rev limiter bounce mean anything to him? If you hadn't fallen down than you would be in front of him and not needing to let him know you are there trying to pass him. Maybe that was a lapper and I'm getting bothered by something for no reason but that is a topic that has always confused me.

Joel

[typeone]

theres another POV vid Josh Stang posted, Russell blows by like he's standing still! and Strang is no slouch.

on the rev limiter bounce... tactics! crank that throttle to spook the rider then take a position let him deal with catching you. in this specific instance, Russell was on fire, the rev was justified. GTFO of my way.

---------------

off topic: Joel, i decided to ship my motor out to Hall's for a full tear down and inspect. no need for tools now but wanted to thank you again for the offer.

[gregp]

The rev limiter bounce at the 6 minute mark is just an attempt to get inside the other guys head a little bit. In this case, it worked. Kailub knows he is faster, but the other guy doesn't. In races, I have pulled over for people who have done that to me, only to pass them back later in the race. The guy who revs on you isn't always faster.

[gixxer72]

Great video. I have been working on an 01 CR125 this week, Craigslist special. Can't wait to ride!!

[RyanNicholson]

I felt like I was about to get hurt the entire time I was watching that video. Wow.

[Chippertheripper]

The throttle smack is just a way of saying GTFO the way in the woods. There's an etiquette, if you know a faster rider is behind you, and wanting to come by, ya move over. If that doesn't happen fast enough, a throttle twist will tell him. If telling, winding up your motor, and the obvious attempt at a move fails, then prepare to get stuffed.
It's not personal at all. I haven't screened the vid yet, but all the nice fast guys say thank you when you let them by.

[tls25rs]

off topic: Joel, i decided to ship my motor out to Hall's for a full tear down and inspect. no need for tools now but wanted to thank you again for the offer.

I figured you wound up doing something like that, I think I read something that alluded to you having sent it to Halls and I didn't hear from you asking for the tools. Glad to hear you are getting it done though. We will need to ride together again this year.

As far as the rev limiter thing goes, I understand it is accepted as standard etiquette in woods racing and because of that I also adhere to it when being rev'd upon but if I am the rider making the pass (I know, doesn't happen often, but when it does) I don't bother with the revving and hooting and hollering I just plan and make the pass knowing full well that if I didn't want to have to pass the guy than I should have started better or ridden better up to that point.

Maybe a bad example but I liken it to an F1 race where Fernando Alonso is in first place being chased by Sebastian Vettel. For the example, say that Vettel was significantly faster than Alonso but Alonso was making it not possible to be passed due to line selection KERS etc. If Vettel pulled up and rev'd on Alonso does anyone think that Alonso should move over and let Vettel pass? If the two drivers being so close in skill and equipment is a hurdle to the example replace Alonso with Adrian Sutil in the Force India.

Let me reiterate that I understand it is woods etiquette and I follow it myself, when being passed, I just never really understood the logic behind it from a racer point of view of wanting to finish ahead of whoever it is that I got a better start than.

[Chippertheripper]

You expect a battle up front.
Personally, if I know I'm faster than someone, or passing a lapper, or whatever ill just try and make the move first. If they don't make it easy i'll whoop, followed by a rev, then a stuff.
If I'm up front doing work, I'll just try and stick like glue, and wait for them to make a mistake. It's a lot of pressure trying to stay in front of someone.
And I always say thank you.

I think it comes more from a mentality of you&machine vs the course, as opposed to direct competition with the guy next to you...unless you're up front. Then it's both. And time to nut up.

At least at my level, in my own mind, it's all about pushing myself as hard as I have the balls to. The competition fix is definitely part of it, but it's secondary to being as fast as I can possibly be.

[slowkermit]

The yell/rev is also something that makes the pass safer. It reduces the "surprise" factor and gives the person being passed a choice as to where to give a little room. Believe me I do a lot of pulling over lol...

[tls25rs]

I think it comes more from a mentality of you&machine vs the course, as opposed to direct competition with the guy next to you...unless you're up front. Then it's both. And time to nut up.

This makes the most sense to me of any explanation I have heard to date. I guess I was looking at it more as a battle between riders than between myself and the course. That was always my perspective on racing head to head vs. racing for best time. Thanks for the perspective Chipper.

[Chippertheripper]

Miss you, bud.

[typeone]

seems like we need a NESR Dirty Bastards woods race day i miss it.

I figured you wound up doing something like that, I think I read something that alluded to you having sent it to Halls and I didn't hear from you asking for the tools. Glad to hear you are getting it done though. We will need to ride together again this year.

yeah, wife talked me into it. way too much going on and time is running short. the more i thought about it, the more it made sense to ship it off. cant wait to ride that bike more this season.

[typeone]

I think it comes more from a mentality of you&machine vs the course, as opposed to direct competition with the guy next to you...unless you're up front. Then it's both. And time to nut up.

This makes the most sense to me of any explanation I have heard to date. I guess I was looking at it more as a battle between riders than between myself and the course. That was always my perspective on racing head to head vs. racing for best time. Thanks for the perspective Chipper.

are you guys crazy? we're talking about racing here. it is a battle between riders. up front or not, i want your position if you're in front of me

[maxim_X]

The yell/rev is also something that makes the pass safer. It reduces the "surprise" factor and gives the person being passed a choice as to where to give a little room. Believe me I do a lot of pulling over lol...

X2. It seems like as long as I clearly favor one side of the trail the faster rider will easily get by without me slowing much, if at all. if there is a split in the trail I will specifically take the longer, less used route and give the faster rider the chance to pass. If they don't get by me with that effort then fuck them. Try to stuff my fat ass.

[tls25rs]

are you guys crazy? we're talking about racing here. it is a battle between riders. up front or not, i want your position if you're in front of me

Exactly the perspective I have on it! However the whole woods racing etiquette of if I rev or hoot and holler at you you should move over goes completely against this. Like I said, Chipper's explanation is the one that makes the most sense of all that I have heard.

Slowkermit brings up a good point too about it making the somewhat unexpected pass safer.

Now if a rev/hoot/holler is given for the purpose of safety and letting the leading rider know that there is someone challenging them for position than I am still suspect of the expectation that the leading rider should move over to allow the pass to be made. As typeone mentions this is racing where the point is to finish ahead of those you are racing against.

Typing that last part made me think of a perfectly plausible reasoning for the rev/hoot/holler. Typically in this genre of racing there are more than one class of racers on the course at a given time. Some are much faster than others, typically equipment/age(not that this is an indicator of speed by any means), the classes on couse together are usually grouped according to skill which will keep A riders on course with A riders and Bs with Bs etc. That being said, if a rider in a "faster" class is coming up on a "slower" class rider than I can see the application of the rev/hoot/holler as a safety measure. When it gets confusing is when someone that is in direct competition in the same class is using the rev/hoot/holler in an attempt to gain position within the class they are racing.

Sorry about the thread jack! But at least it has been interesting discussion!

[typeone]

Exactly the perspective I have on it! However the whole woods racing etiquette of if I rev or hoot and holler at you you should move over goes completely against this.

i dont think so, and it's not just a woods thing. MX racers will rev/spook as well. get inside the guys head that you are faster like greg mentions.

we're mixing up two different scenarios. one where the rider behind is most definitely faster and you should GTFO of the way once you know he's there. the other is just racing where a duel is taking place between similarly skilled/paced riders trading positions. front pack, back, middle, wherever.

the only etiquette part is being a good sportsman whether you're taking over or being taken over. no one should be getting intentionally hurt over a pass.

Sorry about the thread jack! But at least it has been interesting discussion!

not a thread jack at all, good discussion.

Slowerkermits safety point and you're point about mixed classes being on the course at the same time are perfect examples. an A-class rider def should rev/yell at my C/D-class ass to GTFO so he can rip by but if you rev/yell, pass then i'm back on your ass... it's time to make it stick.

[Chippertheripper]

A nesr woodsy race day, you say?...

[typeone]

yeah, would be a blast to do a group woods race day. you fools wont join us at Southwick.

i'll watch the off-road schedule, really would like to get in at least one HS this season.

[maxim_X]

No MX for this guy. I can barely make it down a trail. There is a race next Sunday in Seekonk. It's not a hair scramble, but similar.

[Chippertheripper]

The short course in Swansea/seekonk would be THE one. It's mostly grass track ripping. No stoppers, and a real short woods section. More fun, less grueling.

[typeone]

no working bikes yet but one is very close. need steering head bearings and a clutch cable then pretty much ready.

im OK with some gnar

[burnham]

No MX for this guy. I can barely make it down a trail. There is a race next Sunday in Seekonk. It's not a hair scramble, but similar.

Any details on that race?

[maxim_X]

From pstr.org

SHORT COURSE HARE SCRAMBLE #1 APRIL 7TH 2013
Simcock Farms, 361 Marvel Street Swansea MA

Whether you’re a seasoned competitor or never entered a race, this event is for EVERYONE!
This is the 1st short course in the PSTR short course series for 2013. This format will tally year end points for awards in each class.
The event consists of a 1-1/2 to 2 mile course (half grass track, half woods). Each class races in two 40 minute heats and your finishes in both heats are combined to determine awards. Heat #1 is Mini’s, Big Wheel, and Women. Heat #2 is the C Class, Heat #3 is the B Class. Heat #4 will be AA and A-expert.

Entry Fee is $25.00 for Heat #1 (Kids and Women) $35.00 for all other classes.

Parking is $5.00

Sign up starts at 7am first heat Starts promptly at 8:30am and the next heat will start approximatly 50 minutes after that.

Food available.
NO CAMPING, NO FIRES, NO DOGS / PETS!

PSTR and AMA membership required.
Sign up available for both PSTR and AMA at event.

[gregp]

From pstr.org
PSTR and AMA membership required.
Sign up available for both PSTR and AMA at event.

Odd. You have to join the hosting club? I thought it was "NETRA and AMA membership required"? Is this is strictly a "club event" (ie - No championship points)?