Does one need to crash while at the track to become a better rider?

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Originally Posted by j4eric

Is it safe to say that you have not pushed your limits until you have crashed?
and with that, do you become a better rider having experienced that.

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I don't think that's the case at all

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Originally Posted by j4eric

Is it safe to say that you have not pushed your limits until you have crashed?
and with that, do you become a better rider having experienced that.

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Originally Posted by G21forme

I don't think that's the case at all

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I agree with Greg. I think you can push the limits and not crash. Every time you slide the bike not on purpose then you have gone past the limit. doesn't mean you've crashed. Worst tire slide I ever had was 2 years ago at Grattan. I slid both tires probably 3-4ft, didn't crash. The 2 people that came underneath me said it was a good one.

I would say that it's part of learning. Is it essential? no. Is it part of every racer's learning? Yes.

I don't really think you learn how to slide or do other advanced riding by crashing. Mostly you can learn what stupid things NOT to do. That's about it.

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Originally Posted by Paul_E_D

I would say that it's part of learning. Is it essential? no. Is it part of every racer's learning? Yes.

I don't really think you learn how to slide or do other advanced riding by crashing. Mostly you can learn what stupid things NOT to do. That's about it.

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100% on board with this statement

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Originally Posted by butcher bergs

100% on board with this statement

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:hug3:

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Originally Posted by butcher bergs

100% on board with this statement

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I only 95% agree. crashing will teach you whether you know how to crash or not. there's things you need to know to do and not do when you're ass is on the ground still moving.

Good discussion guys- I appreciate everyone's feedback.

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Originally Posted by CBR929RE

a friend of mine went 12 years before going down on the track (no racing) and I think another 8 years of street riding before that without going down. that was the longest I've ever heard.

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29 years riding before a Honda Accord took me down. I've had some exciting wiggles at track days but lucked out.

Crashing hurts, I don't recommend it. You know what they say in the Army: "If at first you don't succeed - you shouldn't be a Paratrooper!":wink:

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Originally Posted by Garandman

29 years riding before a Honda Accord took me down. I've had some exciting wiggles at track days but lucked out.

Crashing hurts, I don't recommend it. You know what they say in the Army: "If at first you don't succeed - you shouldn't be a Paratrooper!":wink:

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ok that gets the overall award but 12 years on the track (and she does like 20 or so track days a year) is quite the accomplishment also.

well heres an interesting FRESH point. I went down today 2minutes into the track.
it wont make me faster, it def slowed me down a bit today, but i guarantee you i will NOT forget to check tire pressure ever again!
the conclusion is yours

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Originally Posted by tsorfas

well heres an interesting FRESH point. I went down today 2minutes into the track.
it wont make me faster, it def slowed me down a bit today, but i guarantee you i will NOT forget to check tire pressure ever again!
the conclusion is yours

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Two minutes out and you crash from tire pressures?? Sounds to me like cold tires and too much oooomph!! :wink:

My first time on the track ever I went down 3 minutes into it. It was the first full lap and I tagged the curb inside the bowl. It sucks.

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Originally Posted by kb1

Two minutes out and you crash from tire pressures?? Sounds to me like cold tires and too much oooomph!! :wink:

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i wasnt barely even leaned and i was going super slow.
checked pressure when they actually got hot and i had 20 front (supposed to be 32) and 34 rear supposed to be 23

What I learned from crashing...
1. Don't try to turn sharper at the apex
2. If someone crash in front of you, don't try to jump their motorcycle
3. Don't try to block other riders with your brake lever
4. Don't try to pass in the grass on turn 11
5. Don't race/ride when you are completely exhausted
6. If you forget to down shift, what, roll through, don't rush it and mess up braking
7. Cold tires/cold track suck in 1a.

I can't say I got faster from any one of these but I will do my best not to repeat any of them.

Seriously though, track days should be for fun, learning body position, lines, inputs etc. Not how to crash.

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Originally Posted by Pigman

I would say to be a better rider NO...to go faster YES

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I'd agree with this. You can be really skilled and fast on track days and going your own pace and learning all the skills. But to be competitive in a race against other skilled racers you need to have something more han skills and experience you need to have guts. The ability to push yourself to the very limits and the focus to pull ahead. 5000 track days will not help you if your attitude is "I will not crash".

I think a willingness to push yourself is needed. The actual crashing usually hurts confidance and happens so fast that you can't analyze what really went wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tunertype

I'd agree with this. You can be really skilled and fast on track days and going your own pace and learning all the skills. But to be competitive in a race against other skilled racers you need to have something more han skills and experience you need to have guts. The ability to push yourself to the very limits and the focus to pull ahead. 5000 track days will not help you if your attitude is "I will not crash".

I think a willingness to push yourself is needed. The actual crashing usually hurts confidance and happens so fast that you can't analyze what really went wrong.

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I still fail to see how crashing makes you faster or better.

and I fail to see how crashing means you are competitive in a race. crashing=going backwards=not being competitive

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Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

I still fail to see how crashing makes you faster or better.

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Because for some it will break down the wall of fear of crashing...and allow them to focus on the things that make u Faster than the other guy..

....I've read these posts, and there are a lot of good points. In my experience, most crashes happen most when riders are not able to properly anticipate the result of a given action. This next statement sounds a little more frightening to put in practice than it really is, but the best riders I know all have lots of "almost" crashes all the time. There are guys on this forum who definitely know what I'm talking about.

When these guys mess up, it's by design. When they practice, they analyze where there is margin left and then work to get rid of it. In the process, they make guesses on how far to go.....experienced guys always go little bites at a time. Eventually they step over the edge, by a small amount. Since it is planned, there is really no stress, no panic, they just allow the bike to collect itself and 95% of the time it comes back to them.

So, is crashing required? No. However, racers (who are less patient than track day riders) often make bigger changes per step and will step over the line by too big a margin. Lord knows I hit the deck plenty when I was impatiently working to get to the next level in the 90's.

The biggest thing riders need to avoid crashing is proper "mechanics". Body position and bike inputs should all be adjusted to accomplish two things: maximize grip and maximize feedback. The skills that you learn as you ride around the track should allow you to feel the bike "talking" back to you...letting you know how close you are to the edge. You don't have to be a Moto GP star to get this feedback, but there are certain things that every rider must do. It takes time to learn and there are people out there who can help you learn it.

Do you need to crash?......depends on how patient you are......

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Originally Posted by Rada

That and Emma would beat me if I crashed Lucy.:mecry:

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:tongue: