The 1st bike debate.

[Doc]

Good thread.

My first toy was a honda 300ex 4-wheeler my dad bought me when i was 14

From having that, I had ridden TONS of dirtbikes and other 4 wheelers and gained a lot of experience operating a clutch....not the same as driving a stick car, I mean learning how to feather it over tough stuff, knowing what gears make power, things of that like, something new riders don't understand.

From there, my friends started getting strett bikes, i road those when they gave me the chance.

2 septembers ago, I bought my first bike, 1987 cbr600 F1 hurricane for $500. Didn't buy gear, cause I'm an idiot, used an old crappy helmet, smoked a deer within a week, and somehow walked away with just rash....fixed the bike up, road it for the rest of the season.

Last may, bought an 04 CBR600rr, along with a real helmet, gloves, full length boots, and leather jacket....rode the shit out of it, put 7k miles on it that season

Last June, bought a YZ250, currently riding the shit out of that.

Still have the 600rr this season but not for long

Only thing I would have done different is buy gear FROM THE START, A leather jacket would have saved me from any rash I got in my crash.

I didn't have much gear with my first bike either. Had on OK helmet and always wore jeans but that was about it.

Sneakers? Check.
T-shirt? Check.
No gloves? Check.
Ride without a helmet in NH? Check.

[bostongixxer]

Being responsible and knowing your limits is what counts more than anything. I'm an adrenaline junkie like most around here, so a 250 is not going to do it...nor is a 500 (sorry, Doc). My first road bike was an old Gpz550 about 7 years ago (prior to that it was just dirt riding as a kid). Needless to say, it was too slow...sold it in 2 months and got a 750 Katana...not enough performance or torque...6 months later jumped to a GSXR-750. After that, I hit the track where I learned how to ride.

My advice to every single squid I see (I count myself as a squid) is to go to the track and learn how to ride. Common sense can govern the street...but the track teaches control and limits.

[gs500fast]

a used gs500. cheap, easy, fun. that's how I likes it. didn't mind dropping it. don't mind wrenching on it a little. I would recommend it for anyone. my only complaint is I'm a bit too big for the bike at 6'0 feet tall. if you're 5'8 its a perfect bike. oh but only if you like cleaning carburetors....

[JettaJayGLS]

I didn't have much gear with my first bike either. Had on OK helmet and always wore jeans but that was about it.

Sneakers? Check.
T-shirt? Check.
No gloves? Check.
Ride without a helmet in NH? Check.

Same, except I never made it to NH with my first one, haha....and I bought it in september, so I normally had a sweatshirt on.

Live and learn, I didn't know about this forum at that point, NESR definately has made me a safer rider.

[Doc]

Being responsible and knowing your limits is what counts more than anything. I'm an adrenaline junkie like most around here, so a 250 is not going to do it...nor is a 500 (sorry, Doc). My first road bike was an old Gpz550 about 7 years ago (prior to that it was just dirt riding as a kid). Needless to say, it was too slow...sold it in 2 months and got a 750 Katana...not enough performance or torque...6 months later jumped to a GSXR-750. After that, I hit the track where I learned how to ride.

My advice to every single squid I see (I count myself as a squid) is to go to the track and learn how to ride. Common sense can govern the street...but the track teaches control and limits.

No apology needed. It is your opinion.

But I beg to differ on the EX500 doesn't have "enough". I know a few guys that run EX500's that could give a guy on a 600 a run for their money. Yes they don't have neck snapping 12 oclock wheelie producing HP and Torque but there is something to be said about learning to ride a slow bike well.

Granted it might not be as fun right off the bat.

[obsolete]

But for those that love neck snapping exceleration it's not enough. Just as straight away exceleration isn't everything, turning fast isn't everything either.

[SteveM]

Wow Paul... You have issues.

a. Paul ???

b. He has issues, but it doesn't mean that his analysis wasn't spot on.

c. Wouldn't this problem take care of itself if MSF would simply conduct the BRC on CBR1000RR's?

[bostongixxer]

I know a few guys that run EX500's that could give a guy on a 600 a run for their money. Yes they don't have neck snapping 12 oclock wheelie producing HP and Torque but there is something to be said about learning to ride a slow bike well.

I hear you...but it is precisely the neck snapping, 12 o'clock wheelie producing HP and torque that an adrenaline junkie needs. It's not what everyone needs...I get that...but some do need it.

[bostongixxer]

But for those that love neck snapping exceleration it's not enough.

Yep.

[intergalactic]

Still on my first bike. An old GS500e. It was cheap, droppable with little damage and I fit on it, barely. (6'1") I couldn't fit on an EX500, otherwise I would have gotten that, maybe. Although I keep wanting to slide the bike to see where the limit is (used to run sportscars at Loudon) so less power seemed prudent for the first year. Having a second to think about what happens after I crank the throttle around before I splat into something is good.

If I had to do it again, I might have gotten a windscreen sooner, or an EX500.

I spent all the money I saved on the bike on gear.

[markbvt]

My first bike was a well-used but well-maintained '91 Yamaha XT350 dual-sport that I bought off a guy I work with for $500. It was the perfect beginner bike -- cheap, reliable, forgiving, and easy to ride. I took the MSF class, tooled around my neighborhood on the XT till I felt ready to venture out onto major streets, rode around the region and commuted to work on it for a while, then bought my Triumph and sold the XT to a friend. He still has it.

--mark

[CEO]

First street bike was 2006 r6 brand new. No problems whatsoever.

Is it possible to kill yourself on any bike, sure.

Does everyone have the inherent control needed to ride, nope.

Does owning a bigger bike as your first increase the risk of dumping, never seen stats but I would think so.

Are you more likely to drop, dump or wreck your first bike, once again haven't seen stats but I would think so.

Are newer bigger bikes more money, yes.


The way I see it is, rationally it makes a more sound decision financially and safety wise to buy an older smaller bike first. Then when you get some fundamentals down upgrade to a harder to control more powerful machine. I guess it comes down to a risk assessment, the same thing we do every time we decide to wear gear. From my point of view the small bike route just seems a little more rational and thought out. I will always recommend a smaller bike for a first bike, but it comes down to the person and they can do what they want. Just as I wouldn’t recommend a corvette for a kid just getting their license. Everything is dangerous in this world but there certainly rational things that can be done to mitigate risk, unfortunately I think it’s an ego issue that this argument even exists. This isn’t to say that people can’t hop on a super sport learn to ride and ride damn good because it happens all the time, I just see this as a risk assessment and what’s acceptable for that rider.

This needs to be more subjective though; Who's to say that someone who crashes their first 600 did so only because it was a 600?

People who are going to crash are going to crash anyways, the bike is only relevant when it comes down to how many old turds will give them shit about it on a forum.

if you're not on a 250 or smaller for your 1st bike, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you're not on a 500 or smaller for your 2nd bike, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't take the MSF BRC before you start to ride, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't take the MSF ERC before your 2nd season, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't buy full leathers before you start to ride, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't have an Arai or Shoei helmet, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't do track days, then you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you need to lower your bike, you're a squid & will kill yourself.

think that covers up most of the bullshit that's been going on around here.

Exactly... bunch of preachy pussies on here!

I didn't have much gear with my first bike either. Had on OK helmet and always wore jeans but that was about it.

Sneakers? Check.
T-shirt? Check.
No gloves? Check.
Ride without a helmet in NH? Check.

The biggest preacher on here was a squid... so now you're that hypocritical grandpa who has stories about how he was so dumb back in 'his day' and wants to help you do what he should have done... every kid's nightmare... annoyance and eyerolling abound.

But I beg to differ on the EX500 doesn't have "enough". I know a few guys that run EX500's that could give a guy on a 600 a run for their money. Yes they don't have neck snapping 12 oclock wheelie producing HP and Torque but there is something to be said about learning to ride a slow bike well.

Granted it might not be as fun right off the bat.

Who the fuck cares if a ninja 500 can be piloted by a racer around a track at 1:18's? It's slow and ugly... we are talking about street bikes.

It needs to look good, be badass, wheelie, and get chicks.

Thus my street bike is an 1100 wheelie machine hooligan bike and my track bikes are 600 and 450.

If someone wants to buy a 600 or 1000, let them be. If someone wants to buy a 250 or 500, let them be and maybe give them your godly nod of approval.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... this isn't fucking knitting, this is motorcycling! Jesus!

[curiouser]

Got a 2001 Ninja 250 after taking the MSF BRC. I got it because it was cheap and super easy to handle.

Honestly, my goal through the first year of riding was not to f myself up. With all of the hazards on the road, I wanted a bike that required as little extra attention as possible. It just seemed logical that the less attention you pay to actually making the bike cooperate, the more attention you can pay to the road conditions and the crazy people around you. Also, the baby Ninja was fun! I could wring it out through the first 4 gears and not be in the jail range speeds.

I kept the bike for 2.5 seasons and put many miles on it, some of which were 2-up, then sold it for basically what I had paid. The only downside to my experience on the small bike was that when I bought the F4i track bike, it was a significant step up that I had to get used to on my first trackday. However, that was my own fault for trying to learn a completely new class of bike without spending some 'get to know you time' on the street first.

[Jim]

CEO just killed everyone's place

[obsolete]

First street bike was 2006 r6 brand new. No problems whatsoever.

This needs to be more subjective though; Who's to say that someone who crashes their first 600 did so only because it was a 600?

People who are going to crash are going to crash anyways, the bike is only relevant when it comes down to how many old turds will give them shit about it on a forum.

Exactly... bunch of preachy pussies on here!

The biggest preacher on here was a squid... so now you're that hypocritical grandpa who has stories about how he was so dumb back in 'his day' and wants to help you do what he should have done... every kid's nightmare... annoyance and eyerolling abound.

Who the fuck cares if a ninja 500 can be piloted by a racer around a track at 1:18's? It's slow and ugly... we are talking about street bikes.

It needs to look good, be badass, wheelie, and get chicks.

Thus my street bike is an 1100 wheelie machine hooligan bike and my track bikes are 600 and 450.

If someone wants to buy a 600 or 1000, let them be. If someone wants to buy a 250 or 500, let them be and maybe give them your godly nod of approval.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... this isn't fucking knitting, this is motorcycling! Jesus!

Then why do you wear gear? Like I said it's a risk assessment based on the rider, but will you not agree that a 600 super sport is harder to control than an Ex500?

[madkaw]

12 Years ago my first bike was a '94 GSXR750. The reason? The "hotness" I admit it was all about the look.

Funny thing is, as my ego got inflated so did the displacement...until I crashed and learned the truth about mixing big bikes with lack of experience and a cocky attitude the hard/painful way. Now, I strongly feel that as my experience level advanced my choice in smaller displacement machines leaned towards the 600's. I highly doubt I'll ever want a liter bike...ever. In fact, if I could afford to have another bike in my stable I'd so love to have something even smaller than a 600.

[black]

can we open up a thread about motorycle oil and preferences next?

["Dangerous" Dan K]

CEO just killed everyone's place

And I agree with him 100%. My first bike was an 87 ZX750. Heavy as shit, but still a 750 sport bike. I rode that thing for a long time without ever having any issues, then I got cocky and crashed it. I'd have crashed a ninja 250 in the same place at the same time. It wasn't the bike, it was me.

Then I had an R6 for a season, and I crashed that too. Again, it wasn't because the bike was too much, it was because I was riding like an asshat. You can crash any damn thing, including pedal bikes.

Let people get what they want. Maybe if they get their dream bike they'll care so much about it they won't ride risky. I've never had a street bike I wasn't 100% willing to crash, and crash them I did. I've also never crashed one when I was out being careful, trying to ride safe. Bikes don't crash bikes, the riders do.

[obsolete]

CEO just killed everyone's place

Not really, he came off sounding like just as much of a cocky prick as Doc. Which is impressive.

[Doc]

But for those that love neck snapping exceleration it's not enough. Just as straight away exceleration isn't everything, turning fast isn't everything either.

I hear you...but it is precisely the neck snapping, 12 o'clock wheelie producing HP and torque that an adrenaline junkie needs. It's not what everyone needs...I get that...but some do need it.

and i said...

Granted it might not be as fun right off the bat.

[scottieducati]

Doc sucks!

[rina]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... this isn't fucking knitting, this is motorcycling! Jesus!

So you're telling me I shouldn't have gotten my 250 so I can sit up and knit sweaters at stop lights...

But really, I got it because I'm short and wanted to spend more money on gear that I know I'll have for longer than the bike. Not worried about the distance to the ground anymore but glad to have the smaller bike to begin with.

[600rr0504]

Maybe if they get their dream bike they'll care so much about it they won't ride risky.

Me in a nut shell.

The guys at work call it my 20k penis extention, but I don't give a shit. I'd do laps around a kindergarden to get looks because it makes me feel that much better about myself lol.

[Doc]

See... we go down that road again... People getting all defensive and shit because they made a choice that is considered poor by others. :cry:

Yep, I USED TO BE a squid. I have experience that I try and pass on so that others will not make the same mistakes I did. If they don't choose to listen it is no hair off my balls.

This wasn't intended to be an argument thread. See the 1st post.

[ThisBitch]

if you're not on a 250 or smaller for your 1st bike, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you're not on a 500 or smaller for your 2nd bike, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't take the MSF BRC before you start to ride, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't take the MSF ERC before your 2nd season, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't buy full leathers before you start to ride, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't have an Arai or Shoei helmet, you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you don't do track days, then you're a squid & will kill yourself.
if you need to lower your bike, you're a squid & will kill yourself.

think that covers up most of the bullshit that's been going on around here.

If you don't signal and slam on your brakes to turn into a parking lot with no notice, you're a squid and will kill the people behind you.

GFYS, Jim.