Tough times for KTM - parent company facing bankruptcy?

[backinthesaddle]

Just saw this:

https://racerxonline.com/2024/11/26/...self-insolvent

I think KTM/HUS/GG diluted their brand too much, and MV Agusta was probably no great return on investment.

[boosten lebaron]

I saw something similar last week. Honestly, I think it's just too focused of a brand towards dirty things. The only non dirty bike they have is the $40k rc and nearly as expensive mv agusta bikes which lets admit, aren't for the day to day person.

[nhbubba]

No dirt oriented? There's like 9 different Duke variations now. There's an RC 390. The 1290 GT sports tourer and the 890 SMT.

Figures that I'd buy my unicorn (890 ADV-R), have it turn out to be a model known for fouling cams, and then have the company go bankrupt. Buy high, sell low I always say. Fortunately none of the features on my bike are subscription based.

[boosten lebaron]

I've always considered the Duke a dirt bike base for the streets. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm certainly not the only one that thinks that.
The rc390 is not a bike for the masses, the same for the big rc. The smt is a dirt bike with road tires.

Why no rc890 that is affordable, at least for a KTM.

[boosten lebaron]

No dirt oriented? There's like 9 different Duke variations now. There's an RC 390. The 1290 GT sports tourer and the 890 SMT.

Figures that I'd buy my unicorn (890 ADV-R), have it turn out to be a model known for fouling cams, and then have the company go bankrupt. Buy high, sell low I always say. Fortunately none of the features on my bike are subscription based.

I just bought a Mazda cx70. Absolutely no one told me how many things on it were subscription based but in trial mode basically until after I signed on dotted line. I was furious. Last Mazda I will ever buy. For Christ sakes, even the remote door locks are subscription.

[Paul_E_D]

I just bought a Mazda cx70. Absolutely no one told me how many things on it were subscription based but in trial mode basically until after I signed on dotted line. I was furious. Last Mazda I will ever buy. For Christ sakes, even the remote door locks are subscription.

WTF? Maybe my new car buying days are over. LOL I HATE subscriptions

[Crconnor18]

I feel KTM’s street presence does not have the pedigree of the other big brands. Most of their lineage is from the 9x0 adventure models. Over the last 20 years they created way too many engine & chassis variations which deviated their design efforts away from reliability concerns and more towards the next generation/design.

Looking back at their rough past:

(2003) 950 > (2006) 990 > (2012) 1290/1190/690/390/200 > (2017) 1290/1090/690/390 > (2019) 1290/790/690/390 >(2021) 1290/890/690/390> (2025) 1390/990/890/790/690/390

That doesn’t even account for their acquisitions. They grew fast and during that they had a few scares like the 890 cam wear issues, subscription packages, expanding fuel tanks, immobilizing issues.

Their dirtbikes are where they thrive. The adventure market is nice and all but in reality they just are the new coffee shop bikes where some guy buys the 890 adv-r and rides most pavement and some dirt roads. Their marketing makes you imagine you’ll be Chris Birch but you won’t. Now that everyone entered the adv market there are more options to go with that many here have tried and enjoyed. I love my KTMs (250,790,890 owner) but their business wasnt run for sustaining that much growth in just 20 years.

That being said, it looks like I also bought high on my 890 and probably going to keep it for life if they go belly up.

[backinthesaddle]

I just bought a Mazda cx70. Absolutely no one told me how many things on it were subscription based but in trial mode basically until after I signed on dotted line. I was furious. Last Mazda I will ever buy. For Christ sakes, even the remote door locks are subscription.

I think BMW cars were trying subscriptions and backed off them. The whole IT cloud subscription is always interesting at renewal time as to where the prices are going. Our VMWare skyrocketed both on-prem and in the cloud.

[backinthesaddle]

I feel KTM’s street presence does not have the pedigree of the other big brands. Most of their lineage is from the 9x0 adventure models. Over the last 20 years they created way too many engine & chassis variations which deviated their design efforts away from reliability concerns and more towards the next generation/design.

Looking back at their rough past:

(2003) 950 > (2006) 990 > (2012) 1290/1190/690/390/200 > (2017) 1290/1090/690/390 > (2019) 1290/790/690/390 >(2021) 1290/890/690/390> (2025) 1390/990/890/790/690/390

That doesn’t even account for their acquisitions. They grew fast and during that they had a few scares like the 890 cam wear issues, subscription packages, expanding fuel tanks, immobilizing issues.

Their dirtbikes are where they thrive. The adventure market is nice and all but in reality they just are the new coffee shop bikes where some guy buys the 890 adv-r and rides most pavement and some dirt roads. Their marketing makes you imagine you’ll be Chris Birch but you won’t. Now that everyone entered the adv market there are more options to go with that many here have tried and enjoyed. I love my KTMs (250,790,890 owner) but their business wasnt run for sustaining that much growth in just 20 years.

That being said, it looks like I also bought high on my 890 and probably going to keep it for life if they go belly up.

When I first saw the SMC690 ad where the guys jump the bikes off the parking garage I had visions in my head. I'd probably wheelie it off a frost heave and loop it out.

[csmutty]

WTF? Maybe my new car buying days are over. LOL I HATE subscriptions

My new Ford has everything via the app and is free. So there's still some hope haha!

[boosten lebaron]

My new Ford has everything via the app and is free. So there's still some hope haha!

Are you sure your not on a trial like I am? I am 100% positive trucks like the maverick and rangers are subscription services on the app. You wouldn't know it's a trial unless you ask or reach the end of it next year. Things like remote start, door locks, system checks etc are subscription services now

[SteveM]

Are you sure your not on a trial like I am? I am 100% positive trucks like the maverick and rangers are subscription services on the app. You wouldn't know it's a trial unless you ask or reach the end of it next year. Things like remote start, door locks, system checks etc are subscription services now

This subscription service nonsense has me thinking I'll go full Randy on my 2020 GMC Sierra and drive it until I can no longer rivet panels on it to pass inspection.

What a bunch of bullshit.

[boosten lebaron]

If I knew about the subscription this before I bought it I never would have gotten it. I suppose it's my fault ultimately but who thinks to ask is this feature included in the sale or am I just borrowing it? Mazda doesn't do any sort of brochures or pamphlets anymore so there is no way to know about it unless you ask or you get the app first which you can even open unless you assign a vehicle to it first. We have always been a Mazda family but this is the last one. Its even prompted us to get rid of the Miata next year. We just totally want away from the brand now.

[csmutty]

Are you sure your not on a trial like I am? I am 100% positive trucks like the maverick and rangers are subscription services on the app. You wouldn't know it's a trial unless you ask or reach the end of it next year. Things like remote start, door locks, system checks etc are subscription services now

Yup. Ford pass app and services are complimentary. The Ford Maverick owners group would have been going off with new threads daily if they charged after a year!

[loudbeard]

I pay $35/month for OnStar, 4G LTE hotspot, and remote access via the app. If I didn’t want to have the hotspot I’d probably be bitching about having to subscribe to anything.

[mikeb]

Planned on keeping my prehistoric Jeep for ever anyways. When the time comes for a truck I'm going out west to find an old one devoid of this bullshit and rust free and build it to my liking.
Phone gives me gps and that's all I want.

[02redhawk]

I pay $35/month for OnStar, 4G LTE hotspot, and remote access via the app. If I didn’t want to have the hotspot I’d probably be bitching about having to subscribe to anything.

Doesn't having OnStar drop your insurance rate by some $$?

[Paul_E_D]

Back on topic, What will the KTM restructure mean for the consumer in the short term?

[SteveM]

Back on topic, What will the KTM restructure mean for the consumer in the short term?

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/10...-are-laid-bare


Although they keep saying there will be no impact on consumers, it's hard to believe with debts this staggering.

[nhbubba]

Seeing 500 EXC-F's at ~$5k off. (Although not anywhere near this zip code.) Hmmm....

[xrocket21]

Seeing 500 EXC-F's at ~$5k off. (Although not anywhere near this zip code.) Hmmm....

ugh

Im jealous! Mine wasnt cheap

[Paul_E_D]

I think the new dirtbikes are also having manufacturing issues? Not sure I'd buy one right now. My 2014 KTM XC-F250 has been bulletproof. I mean, I barely maintain it. Never needed a valve adjustment. I have done one top end. That's about it. and it's probably the most powerful 250 that ever hit the market. even the newer KTMs are down on power by comparison.

[nhbubba]

Yeah. I think I really want a kick-era 500 if I'm going that route. Simpler. Moar motorbike and less bullshit. Had one in my sights but it slipped away.
Still, $8k for a 500 EXC-F seems like a thing.
I'll probably wind up with a shitbox Suzuki or ho-hum Honda instead. My euro-bike ownership experience has been a mixed bag.

[typeone]

I think the new dirtbikes are also having manufacturing issues? Not sure I'd buy one right now.

i haven't really followed KTM except for the 3, 2022-2022 minis we had, kept reading about lots of issues. brand new bikes sitting at dealers waiting for cylinder replacements before they could go out the door, cracked hubs, stuck PVs, crank vibes, and other odd running behaviors. the GG 65 i just sold was purchased by a moto dad who was waiting for a clean older model to show up for sale, said his buddies have new KTMs and they've been nothing but a headache.

[boosten lebaron]

I think the new dirtbikes are also having manufacturing issues? Not sure I'd buy one right now. My 2014 KTM XC-F250 has been bulletproof. I mean, I barely maintain it. Never needed a valve adjustment. I have done one top end. That's about it. and it's probably the most powerful 250 that ever hit the market. even the newer KTMs are down on power by comparison.

This is probably the truest reason why they are going under. You know things are bad when the older models are better.