Bill Introduced to Limit Ethanol to 10%

[oVTo]

The AMA sent out a notice that a bill was filed to limit the amount of ethanol in gas to 10%. If you're opposed to the increase to 15%, this is a really good time to contact your federal lawmakers urging them to support S.344.

[dontpanic]

Done. (I added a sentence about motorcycling needing to be a part of any comprehensive energy strategy, too.)

[ranette]

Waiting to hear from the libertarians with plastic tanks.

[RandyO]

I would have to read the text before I support the bill, sounds good on the face, but it might eliminate E85 as well

the solution to our energy problem is hemp

[Kurlon]

I would have to read the text before I support the bill, sounds good on the face, but it might eliminate E85 as well

the solution to our energy problem is hemp

I wouldn't mind ending subsidies for E85, then better methods of producing it than from corn might take off.

[RandyO]

no text available yet, 1% chance of passing only 9% chance of even getting out of committee http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/s344

[PhilB]

I e-mailed my Congresscritters (through the AMA).

PhilB

[markbvt]

Done. I added a couple of paragraphs about the problems with ethanol in general, and asking them to also consider making nonethanol gas more widely available.

--mark

[SRTie4k]

Have any one of you actually had problems due to ethanol content? I'm not trying to start an argument, simply asking an honest question.

[TheIglu]

My plastic tanks have no issues at all with ethanol gas.

- - - Updated - - -

Waiting to hear from the libertarians with plastic tanks.

Done.

[markbvt]

My Honda runs noticeably more smoothly on nonethanol gas, and I have had to clean out a friend's carb that was severely gummed up by ethanol gas breaking down and forming what looked like a half-dissolved gummy bear in the carb bowl (this happened in the space of a month or two, not any really long period of storage). I've also spoken with numerous people from dealership owners to independent mechanics who've described things like carb needles being eaten away by the sulfuric acid formed by ethanol gas reacting with the water it absorbs.

Yes, it's a very real problem for small engines, especially older ones.

EDIT: Here's what ethanol gas has done to the paint on the plastic tank on the '98 Tiger 900 my friend David recently bought -- apparently the ethanol leaches through the plastic. There have also been many warranty replacements of Ducati fuel tanks because the ethanol content in the gas has actually made the tanks change shape and stop fitting properly.



--mark

[Kurlon]

Have any one of you actually had problems due to ethanol content? I'm not trying to start an argument, simply asking an honest question.

Yes, my Subaru ran audibly worse on E10, idle was rougher, MPG took a hit.

My pitbike carbs will not tolerate E10 sitting in them for any length of time, plugs the pilot passages right up in short order. I've got to tear my snowblower apart as I think the gas line is coming apart thanks to the ethanol. (Produced prior to E10 being on the market.)

It doesn't help the milage on my Highlander either.

[SRTie4k]

I know about the mileage hit it has, I've experienced that myself.

I was mainly curious about its effect on smaller engines, mainly because I have never really seen any issues between the two small two-stroke engine vehicles I've had (a jet ski and a snowmobile, both of which I have torn into the carb/s without the mentioned problems).

[nhbubba]

My concern with non-ethanol fuel is what will be used in its place to oxygenate fuel? MTBE is nasty stuff. I for one am glad it is not used as much anymore.

[RandyO]

Have any one of you actually had problems due to ethanol content? I'm not trying to start an argument, simply asking an honest question.

yes, with snowblower, lawnmower, If I don't drain float bowl and run all gas out of fuel line, I will have to take apart & clean after a couple weeks

[soofle616]

Later 1st gen RSV's had the same tank swelling issue the plastic tank ducs had. Ethanol gets into the plastic and absorbs water causing the material to expand. Best case result is the tank doesn't fit well anymore. Worst case is the plastic warps so badly that a leak develops around the pump flange resulting in a full tank of gas left on the garage floor. As for any noticeable difference in how my stuff runs.. when i was in MT there was a plentiful supply of ethanol free "snowmobile" gas but I never noticed a real difference using it. Then again I was at 3500+ feet above sea level so performance levels were noticeably down anyway.

I'm all for getting rid of ethanol period. It contains less energy than gas meaning more of it has to be burned to result in the same output, it has a history of damaging vehicles, it's energy content is low enough that it's actually net negative (we use more energy to make it then we get out of it). And if I bothered to research I could probably find more issues with it. Imo it's only there to satisfy a bunch of corporate farming groups. End ethanol subsidies and lets see how long people actually continue to push for it to be used in gas blends.

[PhilB]

Have any one of you actually had problems due to ethanol content? I'm not trying to start an argument, simply asking an honest question.

The main effect for me is that my fuel mileage (and thus range) went down noticeably. I am concerned that as it gets increased, though, the fuel system, whose seals and elastomers were not designed for it, may suffer. Also, my older scooters could well suffer from fuel they weren't designed for. (As well as concerned for the facts that spending our tax money subsidizing the turning of food into fuel, inefficiently, quite possibly burning as much oil in doing so as it purportedly replaces, is just plain stupid.)

PhilB

[soofle616]

I am concerned that as it gets increased, though, the fuel system, whose seals and elastomers were not designed for it, may suffer.
PhilB

Given that OEM's specify a different fuel module for flex fuel vehicles which contains a unique set of seals and gaskets, I'd say the seals concern is a very valid one. And btw, this was back in 2000 (and presumably earlier since the production line was already set up and running by the time I got into that job) so it's not like the issue with ethanol is new. If the major automakers knew way the hell back then that it was a potential problem, I'd say it's a good bet it's a real problem.

[Kurlon]

My concern with non-ethanol fuel is what will be used in its place to oxygenate fuel? MTBE is nasty stuff. I for one am glad it is not used as much anymore.

We don't NEED to oxygenate the fuel in the first place... that was a hack to deal with emissions on older carb'd cars.

[nhbubba]

Really? So my EFI, catt'ed car will have similar emissions on 100% real gas?

Then I withdraw my concern.

[Kurlon]

Really? So my EFI, catt'ed car will have similar emissions on 100% real gas?

Then I withdraw my concern.

Yeah, if you noticed, mtbe was a 'winter blend' thing and not used year round. It was to help with non temp adjusting carbs in the winter. EFI adjusts for the conditions and as a result doesn't see as big seasonal emissions variations.

[RandyO]

MTBE was used to raise the octane rating

Ethanol is used to raise the octane rating

or we could go back to lead

[Kurlon]

Maine summer gas prior to ethanol didn't contain lead OR MTBE and yet there weren't octane issues...

[RandyO]

except for Amoco Premium (the white gasoline), ALL gas used to contain lead, even in Maine

[Kurlon]

except for Amoco Premium (the white gasoline), ALL gas used to contain lead, even in Maine

Yup... then we got unleaded as an option, and in the summer it was just that, unleaded, no MTBE. They started using MTBE in the winter blend but it was making snowmobiliers ill after pumping, showing up in ground water, etc so they put the ki-bosh on it. This was all pre-ethanol era.