Frame Scratches = Totalled?

[Berg]

I just received the insurance appraisal from my recent crash and it looks accurate except that there are some very light scratches on the frame that weren't mentioned. These scratches are really minor, they only seem to be in the paint/powdercoat.

I've always heard that any damage to the frame meant that they would total the bike. Has anyone had any experience with this type of situation?

[sxlova07]

when I crashed my yamaha 600r I had light scratches on the frame, and the appraiser said because of that the bike would be totalled. Not saying its the case all the time, but it happens frequently.

[SVRACER01]

yes. it would most likely be totaled. do you want it to be totaled? if not then who cares. if so then speak up

[schleppy]

yes. it would most likely be totaled. do you want it to be totaled? if not then who cares. if so then speak up

Agreed. If you're concerned with riding the bike after the crash, say something about the scratches to the adjuster.

[Berg]

Good question. I'm not sure whether totaling it would be a good thing. I'm not sure how they establish the price of the bike.

If I don't total it, I may want to sell or trade it in and I wouldn't want the scratches to impact the value of the bike.

[Berg]

I looked at another thread and it looks like they use the NADA retail value of the bike. If that's the case I'd make out OK.

If it's totaled I could buy it back from the insurance co. and use it as a track bike. Not sure what they would want for it though.

[SVRACER01]

I looked at another thread and it looks like they use the NADA retail value of the bike. If that's the case I'd make out OK.

If it's totaled I could buy it back from the insurance co. and use it as a track bike. Not sure what they would want for it though.

if your gonna do that then why not just keep the estimate and track the bike anyway. at least it will have a clean title. if you total it and buy it back then it will have a salvage title and a huge PITA if you ever want to street it again.
do you own the bike outright or do you have a lein on it still? if you total it and buy it back then you will probably end up with less $$ in your pocket then if you kept the original estimate.

[RandyO]

Not sure what they would want for it though.

they want it to sell to a salvage yard and recoup as much $$ as they can

insurance companies like any other business are in business to make $$$


every vehicle I ever had totaled that I bought back, insurance company never had actual title, they just sent me check minus 10% so it never turned into a salvage title

I supose though it would be different if the vehicle was financed and a bank held the title

[Berg]

SVRacer. There is no lien on the bike so I have the title in hand. Looking at other threads the frame would have to be replaced before it was reinspected so I agree that reconstructing the title wouldn't be worth it.

RandyO. I always assumed that the insurance company would require the owner to transfer the title to them and it would be reissued as a salvage. When you totaled your bikes were you in Mass or NH?

[wylee]

every vehicle I ever had totaled that I bought back, insurance company never had actual title, they just sent me check minus 10% so it never turned into a salvage title

I think it depends on the insurance company. I know Geico won't issue a check for a total loss without the title being transfered.

[McBiggity]

mike, if you have questions, PM me.

[richw]

If your worried GMD computrak will analyse and teawk it back if needed.

[RandyO]

RandyO. I always assumed that the insurance company would require the owner to transfer the title to them and it would be reissued as a salvage. When you totaled your bikes were you in Mass or NH?

NH, haven't done it with a bike, only cage, but my son's bike was totaled, and had the same experience as with my cage

[RandyO]

I think it depends on the insurance company. I know Geico won't issue a check for a total loss without the title being transfered.

Gieco is the company my son was dealing with with his VFR when it was totaled they just issued him a check for value minus 10% plus $750 for his helmet plus storage at the dealer (the dealer put storage in the estimate of damages but didn't charge him)

BUT Gieco wasn't my son's insurance, it was the insurance company of the idiot cager that pulled a u turn in front of him at a toll booth

he never had to issue a title to Gieco, not did he get a salvage ttle from them, he just fixed the bike like it was a minor getoff

[SVRACER01]

bottom line. do you want to keep the bike or have it totaled?

if you want to keep it then redo the estimate without the frame scratch and it yours. everthing will be fixed but the frame.

[tatersalad]

polish the frame and it will hide any minor scratches once you rebuild it if you go that route if the ins. co totals it.........

[naked-daytrader]

I just received the insurance appraisal from my recent crash and it looks accurate except that there are some very light scratches on the frame that weren't mentioned. These scratches are really minor, they only seem to be in the paint/powdercoat.

I've always heard that any damage to the frame meant that they would total the bike. Has anyone had any experience with this type of situation?

Same exact thing happened to me. I lowsided on an on ramp on 495 (gsxr1100), the frame had scratches in it and I told the adjuster my concerns with it. They ended up totaling the bike and gave me $6900 for it. I bought it back off of them for 3500 and polished the frame myself threw a shitload of aftermarket parts on it (totaling close to $2000) and sold it 4 months later for $7500 to some dude in Conn.

[SVRACER01]

Same exact thing happened to me. I lowsided on an on ramp on 495 (gsxr1100), the frame had scratches in it and I told the adjuster my concerns with it. They ended up totaling the bike and gave me $6900 for it. I bought it back off of them for 3500 and polished the frame myself threw a shitload of aftermarket parts on it (totaling close to $2000) and sold it 4 months later for $7500 to some dude in Conn.

what was the point of that? if you had not claimed the frame. you would have prolly collected a little more $$ (instead of $3400)and done the same stuff to the frame and what not and had a clean title bike.

[Paul_E_D]

I recently totaled a bike in MA and the insurance co. GAVE it to me. They wanted no part of it... Safety was the company, it was the car driver's co. not mine.

[naked-daytrader]

what was the point of that? if you had not claimed the frame. you would have prolly collected a little more $$ (instead of $3400)and done the same stuff to the frame and what not and had a clean title bike.

Not really because they were only going to give me $2500 if it wasn't totaled, I then brought up the frame scratches/ding and told em I think it might be bent (the frame had a little ding in it that the adjuster didn't see the first go round).
After fixing the bike with me buying the parts I only would of had $500 left over. Granted it did have a salvage title but that doesn't stop alot of people from buying if you explain to them exactly what happened.

[gmdboston]

Insurance companies have several areas to consider when writing off a motorcycle. First and foremost they have very little data on parts pricing, flat rate hours and labor rates. Most adjusters have no way to get information on part pricing and labor time with out going through the dealership. There is no aftermarket source for body parts, wheels, tires etc. At least not from the insurance company stand point. They have to be concerned with liability in the future and with no large parts supplier to point a finger at the insurance company could be on the hook later on if there is a problem or you have another crash. That's why if there is any frame damage at all including minor scratches, they call for a frame replacement. With the price of frames ranging from $800 to $2500 and 10-20 hour labor at $75, they will total just about any bike with frame damage, including minor scratches.

Another driving force behind this is economics. During the busy Spring and Summer months salvage companies pay big money at auction for wrecked bikes. Argo and others like them will bid what I feel is stupid money for a pile of bolts. The wrecks are then either "flipped" for a profit quickly, or parted out. Often the most valuable part of the wreck is the paper work. (I think you can figure out why.) At this time of year the auction prices are so high that most insurance companies will only "write" up 60% of the value of the bike. For example, if you have a GSXR 750 that new is $10,000 and get hit with less that 5000 miles on it, the book value is around $8000. Sixty percent of $8000 is $4800. That means that if the repair estimate is at or even near $4800 they will send it to auction knowing that same bike will get about $3800-$4200. What the insurance company is afraid of is what is called a "Supplemental" claim. That is where the tech finds additional damage during the repair and asks the insurance company for more money. If the repair is at or near the "Write Off" figure, that can put the insurance company upside down on the bike. They don't want to pay $6000 to repair an $8000 bike that they could get $4000 for at auction and then payout $8000 to the owner and be done with it. The net loss then is about $4000 and they are done with the liability.

All of the adjusters that have worked with are thrilled that I can measure a chassis and guarantee no supplemental for the repair. If you crash a bike and want to get it repaired properly and completely the best way is to get it to a GMD Computrack shop. (I know it's a plug, but honestly, we are one of the only shops in the world that have the proper equipment to accurately measure a motorcycle chassis.) Dealerships have no measuring equipment what so ever. At best they have a tech with a tape measure that will compare some arbitrary points to another chassis on the sales floor. That's not meant to be shot a dealerships. But it is why there are so many supplementals and the insurance companies are wary of repairing so many sport bikes. Often the frame damage is not detected until the tech tries to install the belly pan and finds that the front wheel hits the body work.

As for the buy back, the laws vary from state to state. Some states require the owner to be offered the option. Some states do not allow it at all and require all motor vehicles that are "totaled" go through auction. Some states leave it up the consumer and the insurance company to work it out between them selves. Some states do not require the title to be labeled "totaled" or "Salvage", some do. All states do have some sort of re-inspection process for any motor vehicle that has a "Salvage" title. New York is very tough on salvage re-inspection. In some cases a re-inspected motor vehicle comes with a "Rebuilt" title. I have provided documentation for the re-inspection process for several customer. Either by repairing the chassis, or measuring the chassis and providing certification that there is no frame/swing arm/chassis alignment issues.

I hope that will help you.

[LiononaLeash]

Well... I guess my TL is totalled. I had a wrench slip and scratch through the bead blast on the frame.

Hmmm... I wonder what all this means to the frame polisher dudes.

[SVRACER01]

you can always say the scratch was there before the crash.