Looking for advice on Moto Business Venture.

[richw]

Doc I would suggest a no wrecks rule.

Basket cases like 2 months and out or you will part it out on ebay and keep the cash.
Illegal but a couple of wall fans and sealed tarps and you have a paint booth.
Still say tire selling and changing would be real attractive/service

["Dangerous" Dan K]

Edited to add cause I was too beat last night:

20/hour? Man, Doc, that ain't enough. Even down here in redneckville they get $82m plus I tip em. I gotta shop down here that's excellent, MHKS, they give me little breaks on the stuff I've been adding onto this Bandit1200S. I've spent a lot of money on it since I got it and I've made a couple of awful decisions on a couple of things, but they never give me the bike back without the chain is cleaned and lubed and the whole bike detailed and washed all over again. After all the stories about Cycles 128 which is only 4 miles from where I'll be living up there, I'm a little paranoid I ain't gonna have a good shop to take the thing to. So if I find a good bike mechanic, knowledgeable, concientious, all that, man, that's peace of mind. Stuff like chains, brakes, the various alignments, those are the critical things that get ya kilt when things go bad and while it costs to have it done, at least I KNOW it's right. To my mind, given I'm not much of a wrencher anymore and don't know shit about the systems on these bikes anymore, having a good bike-tech is priceless. And winter storage with trickle-charger access and shot at taking the bike out on the occasional warm day that pops up even in the late fall/early spring? Damn right I'll buy into that and I'd bet lots of others would too. But you ARE gonna have to be a little hard-hearted to keep it going. Guys gotta pay up when it's time cause it ain't gonna work if you let it turn into charity.

Not to take anything away from Doc, but VT is pretty damn far from the north shore to be taking a bike for service, especially stuff that may require leaving the bike. The fuel/time to trailer it out, drive home, drive back and trialer it home would probably exceed the repair bill. There are at least 2 excellent shops on the North Shore. One is BMS, at which you'd be dealing with Doug aka Sheppo. He's the man, trust him with your bike with no qualms. The second isn't on here, doesn't sponsor me, so I don't really want to take away from our regulars by dropping their name. They are the cheapest labor on the north shore though @ $55/hr! Guess it depends what you need. New stuff, etc? I'd go to BMS in a second. Need a part for a 15 year old bike? It's nice to be able to wander through the graveyard out back and get used parts for a small fraction what the stuff would cost new. Anyway, don't worry about shops up here. Cycles 128 does suck, but there's good options too.

</threadjack>

[BLACK SQUIRREL]

Is it 20.00 To be able to fix the bike YOURSELF? in the rented space

[Doc]

Is it 20.00 To be able to fix the bike YOURSELF? in the rented space

Haven't decided the rates.

I know if I was doing any work on a bike it would be damn cheap.

[SSearchVT]

I didn't read every reply, and a lot of this has probably already been mentioned. I've learned a lot of this the hard way.

- Don't try to make money (or break even) with your hobbies. Your enthusiasm will make you a lousy businessman, the loss of money will make you hate doing your hobby.
- No one is as clean as you want them to be, especially if they can walk away from it.
- No one cares for your expensive tools like you do.
- Eventually your bike will be the only nice one there, guys will bring the projects that the wife doesn't want to look at.
- You'll open the fridge and never find a beer (or money to buy beer) in it.
- If you're not the last one out, the lights will be left on, and the door will be left unlocked. BTW - someone will always need '5 more minutes' after you tell them you need to go home.


Sorry to sound so negative but as Highsider mentioned earlier - You have a lot less supportive and helpful friends then you think you do. If you ask who spilled the oil in the middle of the floor theres a good chance no one did it, it was there when they came in.

[HIGHONSTRESS]

i agree form an LLC or just incorporate on the cheap, you may not even need a sales and use liscense. members pay dues, and sign a waiver/agreement thing kind of like a gym?

also, if you are leasing the space.. well i have some advice on leases if you get that far remember me and pm!

but i'd be interested in a place like that, i don't have a garage but i like working on my bike and/or hanging out in a shop/club like atmosphere is awesome. having access to tools and stands etc. to work on bikes would be nice.

when winter comes.. what then?

paul

[Doc]

When winter comes I expect it to be more popular and really use the storage space.

I get the don't mix friends with business and I am NOT looking to make any money on this. (At least not for the first couple years). I also understand and have dealt with numerous deadbeats in the Army. Things will be CLEARLY spelled out and posted and people will have to sign agreements and waivers, the tools will be cheap, there will be a BYOB policy and the lights will be on motion sensors... even then I won't have everything figured out.

The first guy to not clean up after himself will get booted. Set the example and move on.

[toocrazy2yoo]

Not to take anything away from Doc, but VT is pretty damn far from the north shore to be taking a bike for service, especially stuff that may require leaving the bike. The fuel/time to trailer it out, drive home, drive back and trialer it home would probably exceed the repair bill. There are at least 2 excellent shops on the North Shore. One is BMS, at which you'd be dealing with Doug aka Sheppo. He's the man, trust him with your bike with no qualms. The second isn't on here, doesn't sponsor me, so I don't really want to take away from our regulars by dropping their name. They are the cheapest labor on the north shore though @ $55/hr! Guess it depends what you need. New stuff, etc? I'd go to BMS in a second. Need a part for a 15 year old bike? It's nice to be able to wander through the graveyard out back and get used parts for a small fraction what the stuff would cost new. Anyway, don't worry about shops up here. Cycles 128 does suck, but there's good options too. </threadjack>

Oh, man, Vt.. Shows once again what *I* don't know.. Looks like it's a moot point, my remark that I made awful spending decisions with my 1200S Bandit is panning out to me pulling the trigger on a Connie14 next week. Gonna get peanuts for the Bandit, about what I paid for the bike, but nothing in return for the $2000.00 of upgrades and service. Roadsmarts, 7500 mile service, new steel brake lines, headlights, Givi rack and trunk with brake lights and backrest, new brakes. Blue Shoei and HJC hats, AND, the bike only has 4000 miles on it. But it leans the rider over just enough to be hard on my right wrist. So I spent ANOTHER $500.00 buying a taller bar, softer grips and longer brake line and labor, and all I accomplished is to make the front end too damned light at half-throttle. The bike needs the original configuration. Sucks to be an old guy. But the Connie, it puts EVERYTHING at your fingertips, no stress. Shoulda bought the damn thing to begin with.

If anyone's looking for a Bandito 1200S I got all the receipts, a clear title, and this bike IS cherry.. Not advertising, per se' but I'd rather hand over all the dough I put into this thing upgrading to someone here rather than them on the trade. Lesson learned, like it or not, no?

Now, to find a Kawi dealer up there..

[P_easy]

Hey doc,

I came to see you about your radian in the spring, which thankfully you talked me out of. I ended up with an 84 Interceptor 500 that I love, which is currently hanging out under an overhang behind my apartment downtown. While I'm having a fair bit of luck storing it with a cover under the roof back there, It's gonna need an indoor home during the winter. To me, that is either a) my parents house in PA or b) this storage space you're talking about. As far as paying for space, I think paying up front for a season or like a certain number of months is really reasonable, especially if the cost is not too high.

P

[Doc]

Hey doc,

I came to see you about your radian in the spring, which thankfully you talked me out of. I ended up with an 84 Interceptor 500 that I love, which is currently hanging out under an overhang behind my apartment downtown. While I'm having a fair bit of luck storing it with a cover under the roof back there, It's gonna need an indoor home during the winter. To me, that is either a) my parents house in PA or b) this storage space you're talking about. As far as paying for space, I think paying up front for a season or like a certain number of months is really reasonable, especially if the cost is not too high.

P

PM me what you would consider not to high. Do your research on local storage options.

[Doc]

Ok for those that are wondering

Straight storage is gonna be $30 a month.

[Mr. Kurtz]

I didn't closely read all the responses, so someone may have suggested this already...

A guy down here in CT used to leave flyers at the CG I managed, he offered winter storage(Oct-Mar I think), included pickup and deliver of the bike(within XX miles), a battery tender hooked up, and an oil and filter change at the end of the winter(standard priced filters only), and I believe he was getting around $100/month. Not sure if that's the sort of thing you want to get into, but for someone who has no other storage option, and isn't able to properly winterize their bike themselves, it's not an unattractive option.

[LODScubaSteve]

Think about insurance... What happend when someones CBR is gone (NOT A HONDA HATER JUST THE EASIEST BIKE TO SEAL)

Or what if someone is working on there bike and there is a fire...? anything could happen Sounds to me like it would be a world of problems

Bikes getting knocked over

[NobodySpecific]

Think about insurance... What happend when someones CBR is gone (NOT A HONDA HATER JUST THE EASIEST BIKE TO SEAL)

Or what if someone is working on there bike and there is a fire...? anything could happen Sounds to me like it would be a world of problems

Bikes getting knocked over

Isn't that what everybody's own insurance is for? Any of those things could happen at any time regardless of location.

[richw]

START A NEW THREAD

[whynot]

Liability and insurance.

Once upon a time I turned my hobby/passion into a business. The liability issues start sinking in pretty quickly. The same lawyers who handle elevator cases take on the motorcycle cases. Along with gobs of insurance coverage, I had a million dollar umbrella policy that lifted all coverages to a mil. And that was 30+ years ago.

And who's gonna empty the trash, recycle the oil and tires, and clean up the coffee counter and fridge? What's your budget for fire extinguishers? Rules for gasoline storage? You might need permits from the local FD for oil and gas storage. That's just the beginning, sorry to say ...

[Doc]

Liability and insurance.

Once upon a time I turned my hobby/passion into a business. The liability issues start sinking in pretty quickly. The same lawyers who handle elevator cases take on the motorcycle cases. Along with gobs of insurance coverage, I had a million dollar umbrella policy that lifted all coverages to a mil. And that was 30+ years ago.

And who's gonna empty the trash, recycle the oil and tires, and clean up the coffee counter and fridge? What's your budget for fire extinguishers? Rules for gasoline storage? You might need permits from the local FD for oil and gas storage. That's just the beginning, sorry to say ...

I plan on having a couple partners and a "manager" these people would have more of an investment in the shop and have keys to to the space. They will be part of my LLC. They will help with the clean up and running of the place.

As to the 2nd paragraph. I am a firefighter, I know the Chief, permits won't be a problem. There won't be a Coffee counter or a fridge (well not in the beginning) I have 4 Fire extinguishers. Bike storage is seperate from the maintenance area. Oil you have to remove yourself.

[Doc]

I didn't closely read all the responses, so someone may have suggested this already...

A guy down here in CT used to leave flyers at the CG I managed, he offered winter storage(Oct-Mar I think), included pickup and deliver of the bike(within XX miles), a battery tender hooked up, and an oil and filter change at the end of the winter(standard priced filters only), and I believe he was getting around $100/month. Not sure if that's the sort of thing you want to get into, but for someone who has no other storage option, and isn't able to properly winterize their bike themselves, it's not an unattractive option.

Not gonna get into winterizing just yet. I plan on handing out a flyer with suggestions on what to do but I won't be doing it.

Basically you can do everything you would do in your driveway but istead of storing it outside it would be inside for the winter months and you would have access to it (by appointment) to work on it (when the work area is free)

[whynot]

OK, sounding better!

Guess we can't scare you off with horror stories

... but keep asking "what if... ?" and "what about... ?"

[whynot]

Suggestion -- do a Web search for

how to start a small business

Here's one result:

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=99336,00.html

[richw]

I hope no one would be sleeping over this

With todays bad gas each bike should be filled to the brim to protect against condensation.

There may be special legal.economic provisions for a "CLUB"

[whynot]

Me again.

When I had the bike shop oh so long ago, the fire chief was more concerned about bike tanks than about the gas can that I needed the storage permit for. The can had to be a safety can, brass non-sparking spout with spring-loaded cap. But it was the tanks that worried him -- and the idea of maybe going into that burning building with so many individual tanks waiting to go pop. The sprinkler system was expensive. Had to get a fire-resistant ceiling put in. And this was a new cement block building with metal roof.

And as richw mentioned, what is a club? There are incorporated associations, for example, and unincorporated associations. Something (the corporation) or someone (the principals) takes responsibility for taxes and liabilities.

Once upon a time I ran a not-for-profit membership organization, sometimes known as a charitable corporation, or in IRS terms, a 501(c)3 corporation. We bought directors and officers insurance for $1200 a year since we assumed that the corporate veil could be pierced. The insurance policy was 6 pages of exclusions. I never did figure out what was covered.

Sorry, more cold water and wet blankets.

[Doc]

Suggestion -- do a Web search for

how to start a small business

Here's one result:

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=99336,00.html

The military has a free course coming up that I am going to take and I have another line on a seminar... But thanks for that too.

My wife is the one asking all the "what if's"

[Doc]

I hope no one would be sleeping over this

With todays bad gas each bike should be filled to the brim to protect against condensation.

There may be special legal.economic provisions for a "CLUB"

No living space in the building. It was a High Performance Motor building shop before. The shop will be kept heated so that should help with the condensation.

[Doc]

Me again.

When I had the bike shop oh so long ago, the fire chief was more concerned about bike tanks than about the gas can that I needed the storage permit for. The can had to be a safety can, brass non-sparking spout with spring-loaded cap. But it was the tanks that worried him -- and the idea of maybe going into that burning building with so many individual tanks waiting to go pop. The sprinkler system was expensive. Had to get a fire-resistant ceiling put in. And this was a new cement block building with metal roof.

And as richw mentioned, what is a club? There are incorporated associations, for example, and unincorporated associations. Something (the corporation) or someone (the principals) takes responsibility for taxes and liabilities.

Once upon a time I ran a not-for-profit membership organization, sometimes known as a charitable corporation, or in IRS terms, a 501(c)3 corporation. We bought directors and officers insurance for $1200 a year since we assumed that the corporate veil could be pierced. The insurance policy was 6 pages of exclusions. I never did figure out what was covered.

I am thinking the LLC will cover alot of my bases. Then again, restricting what is done and who does it should help too. Not just anyone will be allowed in unsupervised. I think that decreases my risk a little.

As for the fire hazard, and the chief worrying about all the gas... I am not to worried about what the chief does if the building is on fire. I will most likely be on the first truck to the scene and will advise him.

Sorry, more cold water and wet blankets.

That is what I am looking for. This thread has been an eye opener on many levels. I am just going to try and keep this as simple as possible and expand as I feel comfortable. The good thing is that I know the building owner and they are giving me a great deal on renting the space.