Sliding your bike

**highsider** · 08-22-06, 10:49 AM

I have a question that I haven't had the balls to ask for a while, but here goes:

When I used to run cars on the track, finding the limit of what the car could do was very easy - it would slide, the tires would make noise, etc.

I can't seem to find the limit on my bike, because I cant tell what the limit of my traction is. It seems to me if you slide a bike, you fall on the ground and get a scab. I *want* to push myself to go faster, but I'm afraid to do so, because I dont know how far I can push it.

It seems that, on a dirt bike, you can find out what it will do almost immediately, by sliding it around and feeling it out. That doesn't seem to work well on a sportbike.

What re some signs to look for that your bike's traction is maxed out? What happens when you slide your front tire? Is that pretty much an instant trip to the asphalt?

**Awesome** · 08-22-06, 10:52 AM

you can slide either or both tires without crashing. It's just something you kinda learn. You slide and crash, then you slide and say holy shit I didn't crash, then eventually you're like 'pff it's just s slide."

**Honclfibr** · 08-22-06, 10:58 AM

Since you have a motard now, perhaps you should employ what has become known as the "Heath" method. Pick a corner, and keep pushing in the corner till you fall down. You have now found the limit of traction in that corner. Repeat as necessary until there are no more corners to crash in.

Also, run over your own foot, alot. This will make you very angry and angry people ride faster.

**oreo_n2** · 08-22-06, 11:52 AM

take your motard in the dirt.

practice.

its easy with slicks (or pilot powers) in the dirt to back it in and drift around without highsiding.

i havent tried it yet on pavement.

**TheIglu** · 08-22-06, 12:00 PM

It's hard to get used to sliding a sportbike, especially a big one. I could slide the ass end of my CB750 all over the place when exiting corners due to a skinny rear tire (130), flimsy suspension and not a lot of contact patch. I think that newer tires, suspension and good handling machines tend to keep traction as long as they can before it "lets go". Regaining traction is the hard part. Lotta grip with new tires leads to highsides as you probably know. Older bikes, older tires and less available traction leads to a situation that equates to less of a transition after the slide from sliding to grip.

**Zolden** · 08-22-06, 02:38 PM

Every slide I've had is very unintentional, and usually occurs only because I hit the rear brake a bit too hard. When your bike is 487lbs you don't really want to be tossing it all over the road, I don't think. That said, I've yet to slide more than maybe a few inches in a corner yet, I'm usually doing it before a turn or right before a corner. Coming off the highway the other day my rear slid a good six or seven feet because a shard of a shell had lodged itself vertically into my tire, that was some scary shit since I had just finished going around a 90 degree turn.

I'm usually afraid of not knowing my limit too, in terms of traction. Every day more and more I'm leaning the bike down a bit more, or taking a turn a bit faster though.

**SSearchVT** · 08-22-06, 02:39 PM

+1 for practicing in the dirt. The speeds will be a lot lower, and the landings will be softer. One practice from when I was racing MX was to ride with the front brake locked - pushing the front end - be careful, things happen real quick, and you'll be on the ground before you know it the first few times. Wheelies and Endo's are a really good practice in the dirt to learn how the bike reacts also. When you get really good at recovering from both back and front slides then go play on tar.

**LiononaLeash** · 08-22-06, 03:27 PM

Only slid for sure twice(worth mentioning, I've had lots of little ones) in my sportbike lifetime on my TLR. Both have been trackdays. Once coming out of turn two on the power, and the last time was adding power after the apex of turn 6 heading up the hill to turn 7.

Yes, as Jay said, there is a HOLY **** factor in there. Thankfully I didn't crash either time.

I'm no expert, but I just did what I was told to do if the back end starts to slide. I held the throttle right where it was.... didn't add any more, didn't let off at all(Thanks Graham Pattison

). I was going to make it or I wasn't at that point.

I made it. Its scary as anything... AFTER the fact. Its not scary when its happening per se, but afterward you think holy crap!!! I could have crashed there! Its like retrospective fear!

Now this perspective is coming from a long time street rider and only recently trackday goer.

I like the bike firmly planted, I don't like slides. I don't know from experience, but I'm sure crashing sucks and is expensive. I also ask myself, when I ride, am I having fun at 80%? 90%? If I'm not having fun until 95+%, I need to find a new hobby.

**JeffL** · 08-22-06, 03:45 PM

In red group 7/25, I saw a blue TLR leave a strip probably 100 feet long coming out of 12 onto the front straight, he was so close to lowsiding it was ridiculous.

**bump909** · 08-22-06, 04:14 PM

you just wanna back that drz in!

KB · 08-22-06, 04:32 PM

Backing it in looks cool and all but I can't see how it's faster than a controlled late apex turn.

Yeah man back that shit in. I'm gonna try tonight I just put the 17's bac k on yo!

KB

R7 · 08-22-06, 04:47 PM

Put some studs in some knobbies and take that Motard out on the ice this winter. There is so much control sliding on the ice because the surface doesn't change as much as dirt, I'm guessing a paved surface would give the same affect as ice as far as consistancy in control?

13 · 08-22-06, 05:24 PM

Sliding on street tires is scary. They don't like to regain traction. At least in my experience. Try some DOT race tires. I get mine sliding a bit at least once a race. They regain traction nicely.

I haven't run slicks, but they are probably even better. Just increase corner speed graually and you'll feel it.

**LiononaLeash** · 08-22-06, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by JeffL
In red group 7/25, I saw a blue TLR leave a strip probably 100 feet long coming out of 12 onto the front straight, he was so close to lowsiding it was ridiculous.

Jeff you crack me up!! :lol

**JeffL** · 08-22-06, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by LiononaLeash
Jeff you crack me up!! :lol

I wasnt talking about you.

And I'm completely serious, I couldnt believe he lit the tire up at that lean angle, and for such a long distance without 'layin her down'.

The longer/further he slid, the lower to the ground he got.

I think the guy had on a blue one piece and it said "Dutch" or something along the back? Looked like a race suit, with all the patches/logos and shit on it, in case anyone knows who that is.

**RandyO** · 08-22-06, 06:30 PM

I once slid sideways for about 400 feet on pavement without crashing, it was a steep hill and wet snow

**OreoGaborio** · 08-22-06, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by JeffL
I wasnt talking about you. And I'm completely serious, I couldnt believe he lit the tire up at that lean angle, and for such a long distance without 'layin her down'. The longer/further he slid, the lower to the ground he got.

That's not lighting up a tire... That's just smearing out a darkie (man, that sounds dirty

) When a tire is hot and has alot of force on it, you're making it work so hard that it'll grip the pavment & when you roll off of that patch it'll leave a little tire behind & make for a dark strip.

Clayton's got that trick down pat on the EX comin outta 2 and 12... the difference is, his rear tire really IS stepping out.... just a little

but I can still keep up

**SVRACER01** · 08-22-06, 08:03 PM

parking lots in AZ are so greasy that the stock MEZ4that came on my 650 was perfect for laying down strips around every corner. just tip it in at about 15MPH and then gas it hard.. the rear steps out and there is about 15-20ft of black strip.....

**SVRACER01** · 08-22-06, 08:05 PM

i would say that when you get little balls of rubber at the very edge of your tire.... youve reached the limit. the tires are always sliding... you just cant always feel it.

**highsider** · 08-22-06, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by SVRACER01
i would say that when you get little balls of rubber at the very edge of your tire.... youve reached the limit. the tires are always sliding... you just cant always feel it.

Thats what I'm afraid of.

I get lots of little rubber snotballs, especially with the Dunlops on the motard.

**gmdboston** · 08-22-06, 09:15 PM

This is one of many subjects we cover in the Penguin Advanced School, but here's a cliff notes version.

Most riders slide the bike by literally driving into the ground. That's why they crash going so much slower than the fast guys. Rider inputs to the bike, or more accurately the wrong inputs at the wrong time, are what make the bike lose traction and slide. Most people react by tensing up and finish the job of driving the bike right out from underneath them. When you learn to relax, the bike has much more traction because you're not inputing the bike, i.e. pushing on the bars, trail braking too much, or opening the throttle too fast. It's all about the forces on the tires.

Once you learn how a bike gets it's traction, then you can play with the physics behind it and learn to control it. This maybe a surprise to many of you, but sliding the front tire on the way in to and through a corner is safer and easier to control then sliding the rear. I hate to admit it, but Oreo was dead on about spinning the rear tire. Any one can lay down some rubber and it looks like the tire is spinning to do it, but it's just how it works gettting rubber down on the track. Just keep in mind that the next time around, that's where the traction is. It's why drag racers do the burn outs. It heats the tire and lays a fresh patch of rubber for traction.

Sudden slips like losing the front or the "almost high sided" are usually rider induced (barring anthing slipery on the race surface, or a mechnical problem).

Mark is right about practicing on the ice. There is so much mechanical grip from the screws biting into the ice you almost can't crash by accident. It teaches you how to control the bike's speed and direction with body movements and throttle control. Locking the front brake in the dirt is a great way to practice what to do when the front wheel locks under braking. The biggest penalty is usually a clutch lever and a scrape or two.

So collectively you guys can do a 1:12!

**OreoGaborio** · 08-22-06, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by gmdboston
I hate to admit it, but Oreo was dead on

Hey, it happens from time to time when I get lucky.

**Awesome** · 08-22-06, 09:30 PM

even a broken clock is right twice a day....

**gmdboston** · 08-22-06, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by OreoGaborio
Hey, it happens from time to time when I get lucky.

Too bad you wasted your luck on that, i hear the lottery pool is up there...

**OreoGaborio** · 08-22-06, 09:45 PM

Well I haven't killed myself yet... if that alone hasn't used up all my luck, nothin will.

Sliding your bike

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